Employers can forbid guns, a judge rules, issues an injunction against OK law.

[Jagger]

The amendment protects a right of the people.

The convention of Virginia...proposed the following amendment to the constitution; "that each state respectively should have the power to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining it's own militia, whenever congress should neglect to provide for the same." . . . all room for doubt, or uneasiness upon the subject, seems to be completely removed, by the fourth article of amendments to the constitution, since ratified, viz. "That a militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep, and bear arms, shall not be infringed." . . .

--Saint George Tucker (1803)​

...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.... No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people.

--William Rawle (1829)​

Note: In 1788, at the Virginia Ratification Convention, George Mason used the phrase "to disarm the people" to mean "disusing and neglecting the militia."

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

In any of the forgoing, replace the word "right" with "power" wherever it refers to a state and you'll have the correct connotation.

All those documents and excerpts you presented shows that there as many misuses and misunderstandings then as there are now. Some of what you presented are things like property rights. Property rights are nothing like inalienable human rights. Human rights are things you are born with, property rights are something that you must buy or inherit. You acquire property rights when you acquire property. No state has a right to keep and bear arms. A state may have only those powers granted to it by the people of that state in that state's constitution.

Note: In 1788, at the Virginia Ratification Convention, George Mason used the phrase "to disarm the people" to mean "disusing and neglecting the militia."

George Mason told you that himself, did he? In any case, that which was proposed is one thing and that which became part of the Constitution is another. Also, those quotes in post #141 were made after any discussion on the ratification of the first ten amendments would have been done since those amendments were ratified before those quotes were made - if you have the dates correct.

Quick Draw gives us the best clue with the 10th Amendment, and I'd add to look at the 9th Amendment as well.

The 9th: "...rights...retained by the people."

The Tenth: "...powers...reserved to the states..."

Woody

 

[Jagger]

All those documents and excerpts you presented shows that there as many misuses and misunderstandings then as there are now.

The founding fathers obviously didn't share your view that States don't have rights.

 

[Jagger]

Jagger:
In 1788, at the Virginia Ratification Convention, George Mason used the phrase "to disarm the people" to mean "disusing and neglecting the militia."
George Mason told you that himself, did he?

woodcdi:
George Mason told you that himself, did he?

Here are his exact words:

Forty years ago, when the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man,* who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia.
​

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Here are his exact words:

Forty years ago, when the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man,* who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia.
​

No, he didn't equate the two. Disusing and neglecting the militia is a means to an end. In a sentence analogy, it would be the verb acting upon the subject.

Woody

 

[Jagger]

No, he didn't equate the two. Disusing and neglecting the militia is a means to an end. In a sentence analogy, it would be the verb acting upon the subject.

Woody

The point is that George Mason used the word "people" when he really meant "militia", just like the lawmakers used the word "people" in the Second Amendment when they really meant "militia."

 

[NikatKimber]

The point is that George Mason used the word "people" when he really meant "militia", just like the lawmakers used the word "people" in the Second Amendment when they really meant "militia."

And you know this for a fact how? Were you there?

 

[Jagger]

And you know this for a fact how?

They wrote down what he said and I read it. Here are his exact words:

Forty years ago, when the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man,* who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people...by totally disusing and neglecting the militia.​

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Jagger, you're gonna need some bait if you want any more nibbles from me. You'll get this thread locked if you continue trolling with nothing on the hook.

Woody

 

[hamfest]

Well, now we need to get the state government to say, "Ok, you want the right to keep your employees from bringing guns onto your private property. We understand, but we now require you to be responsible for their safety to and from work since they cannot protect themselves thanks to your self-interested callous policy". I know, it won't happen

I agree with this statement, hit the nail on the head..