Agreed, I don't do church and not biased against catholics.
Hell I don't know what I believe, but I don't want to go through the middle man to God.
Agreed, I don't do church and not biased against catholics.
Hell I don't know what I believe, but I don't want to go through the middle man to God.
Just wanted to make sure that not all fingers are pointed at the Catholic faith when other faiths are just as guilty.
Thanks Dennis.
Out of line - but as I said before, what most people see as the Catholic Church today is not the Catholic Church in my view. That old joke about "Is the Pope Catholic?" To me, the answer is no. Google "Sedevacantist" or just go here (http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/why-sedevacantism-cekada.htm) to get an idea of what I mean. There is way more to what's going on with these molestations than what most of you are aware even exists. Many of you probably think I need to borrow RedDogs tin foil hat, but there have been books upon books upon books written about this. If you research when these molestations began to occur, they typically date back to the 1960s, shortly after Vatican 2. I believe the last true Catholic pope was Pius XII, who died in 1958.
Christ Himself established the Church and created the "middle men" as you put it. He never intended for people to just wander the earth alone without help or guidance. "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." That's not to say you can't pray straight to God - sure you can. But Christ gave special authority to certain men to carry out his work on Earth (ie the Apostles). Why would Christ say He was building a Church and give the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to St. Peter, if He only intended for people to "go it alone"?
"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." Again, Christ gave special authority to the Apostles, which continues today through the priesthood. I can't absolve your sins, but through Confession and Penance, a priest can. The priest himself (ie the man) isn't doing it, but he's doing it through the authority Christ granted him from the days of the Apostles. Catholics refer to it as the Apostolic succession.
Those who don't want to believe, will not be convinced with any amount of evidence. That's why I say again, that this thread was started with less than honest intentions. None of the atheists here want to be convinced of God's existence, therefore they never will.
Let's take this one part at a time. You're wrong already - I was born and raised Protestant. I chose the Catholic Church after researching many different denominations in college and saw the Catholic Church was the only one which could trace its lineage all the way back to Christ, rather than an individual like Luther, Wesley, Smith, etc.
You're wrong again. Catholics also believe Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. His "governor" so to speak, for the Church on Earth. When Popes are elected, we believe that Christ is acting through the Conclave to select the individual that God wants to lead the Church.
Really? Maybe you didn't read the excerpt from John that I quoted earlier. "When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." Just because you deny it, doesn't mean it isn't true. Just as an atheist denying God, doesn't mean He doesn't exist. Since the time of the Apostles, priests have had the power to absolve sin.
What is your source for this? Christ was baptized in the Jordan River. Not because He needed to be, but because He wanted to provide an example for people to follow.
Show me where it ended with them.
Since you believe in the Bible alone as the sole source of Christian knowledge, show me where in the Bible it says a Church is to ONLY have deacons and elders, and that's it. For that matter, show me where in the Bible it says the Bible is the sole source of divine knowledge. Our knowledge comes from the Bible, but also from Divine Revelation and Tradition. (http://www.catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition)
Your right. People read the Bible and take things out of context to fit their wants. That's why it is important to have a final authority to interpret what things actually mean. As Vicar of Christ, the Pope is the final authority as to the meaning of any specific teaching. This is where the Papal Infallibility concept comes in. Papal Infallibility doesn't mean the Pope can never do anything wrong - it means that when speaking on matters of Faith and Morals, he can't be wrong because Christ will not allow him to teach an error. If the Pope is speaking about climate change or some other non-religious topic, he's as prone to error as you or me.
You're all over the place, so I'll answer as best I can. Man cannot forgive sin. Christ does that, but as I quoted earlier, Christ gave the authority to absolve sin to the Apostles, and through apostolic succession, the priesthood. The priest is absolving the sin through the power Christ has given him, not through his own ability. Saying X number of Hail Marys has nothing to do with the absolution of sin. That is a penance which is given to atone for the sin. As an example, say a teenager wrecks his dad's car. He may forgive the teenager for it, but he would likely also expect him to mow the lawn for the next 2 months, for example.
As for Mary...you say she is "nothing more" than the woman God chose to give birth to the Son of God. That's something pretty incredible, I'd say. In the entire existence of the human race, that one woman was the woman selected by God to give birth to His One and only Son. He didn't pick just some random prostitute on the streets of Paris. He chose Mary of Nazareth specifically. Read the St. Luke 1:26-30. "And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin' s name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Catholics don't worship Mary, but they do give her the respect due to the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, just as one would give respect to the Queen of England (except on a much LARGER scale).
EDIT: I guess you deleted your post - but here's my reply anyway.
I'm glad to read this level headed-discussion of Catholicism. It is always better to see Christians seeking common ground. I take the Lord's final prayer on this earth very seriously. Siblings do not always get along but they need to love each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany
I think you're being quite a bit disingenuous. If you truly believe that statement, then again, some history reference might help.
I think the problem is the general refusal of the catholic church to admit it had a problem in several instances where the priests were molesting boys. They would cover it up or ignore the victims completely.
Thanks but no need to even look at the link. I think you have the wrong perception of what a Christian is. Take the Westboro Baptist Church...........they claim to be. I'm thinking not. People claim to be a part of this or that everyday. To the rest of the world, we're known as a Christian nation, yet we know that we all are not.
So what do you have offer to the OP, what do you believe in and how will you convince him, I've not seen you post any of that in this thread yet.
The problem is that there's more to it than what most of us like to call "belief" - even Satan "believes" in God. Only God can instill that desire; other people and other things can point to it, but only God can cause it to happen.
