God

[Dale00]

I know many people that go to church for their own gain. To be seen as a pillar of the community because they sit in church on Sundays. Politics if anything.

I even know a doctor that is a homosexual, but has a girlfriend that he takes to church every Sunday to be seen with a woman. They have no other relationship other than he picks her up Sunday mornings and goes to church. This poor girl cant understand why the dont move forward in the relationship. He drops her off and goes home to his "room mate" of 15 years."See you next Sunday".

That is truly sad. Especially if others in that church know about it and say nothing. Alternatively, we do not know what is in this person's heart. Perhaps a part of him is trying to change. But 15 years is a long time so your assessment is probably correct. Sad for the person and that church.

 

[MaddSkillz]

Well put! Given my family situation it would have been much easier to have kept on pretending to believe. My mom would have even preferred that for family solidarity. I now know plenty of people who go to church and keep their doubt quiet just to keep the peace at home. Part of me can't blame them.

For me, I was just tired of being intellectually dishonest with myself and my loved ones. I was very fortunate to have a spouse who showed nothing but love and compassion through my deconversion.

When you take that leap and your out of the tribe the world can seem like a scary place at first. Life is really much easier when your part of the majority. Being a non-believer in the bible belt gives you an entirely new perspective.

Yup. There are things I miss... I do miss the communinity but not as much as I enjoy having Sunday to myself now and not guilt tripping myself because I did something fun instead of going to church. I'm just so much happier to be where I'm at now than where I was... I'm here to tell ya, there's not as much "freedom in Christ" as there is freedom without religion. Of course, the religious will disagree with that, but they're contractually obligated to do so.

 

[zghorner]

I know many people that go to church for their own gain. To be seen as a pillar of the community because they sit in church on Sundays. Politics if anything.

I even know a doctor that is a homosexual, but has a girlfriend that he takes to church every Sunday to be seen with a woman. They have no other relationship other than he picks her up Sunday mornings and goes to church. This poor girl cant understand why the dont move forward in the relationship. He drops her off and goes home to his "room mate" of 15 years."See you next Sunday".

 

[Dale00]

Sorry for the delay of my response.
I'm dodging nothing, and you've obviously misunderstood, show me where I said Christianity should be rejected.
The sites I posted didn't say "Christianity was based on bad acts", it showed where some of the ideas/beliefs/ideologies/attitudes, etc. that have been proven to cause these problems come from. Why is there a problem there? Don't we have to recognize where wrong acts come from to avoid them?

I'm not trying to prove America is bad and no my logic doesn't say the core beliefs are wrong. My logic says the record shows that at times those beliefs are debatable as to meaning and application, not followed, or even perverted, should we not see that and learn from that?

I have never said the core beliefs of Christianity were not valid or due respect just like anybody else's. I've tried not to insult anybody's beliefs/doctrine or lack of. But if you want to fish for opinions/beliefs on my part to discredit or dismiss my statements or questions based on history and some commonly discussed theology type questions then go ahead.

Just remember the whole point of this thread is the OP guy seeking/questioning/shopping for an answer if not path/direction/side etc. and anybody giving an opinion by the authority or under the umbrella of a specific system also have to be expectant of questions and debate regarding that system. And some would contend have a certain amount of respect for others that don't have the same belief or the exact same interpretation/understanding/experience etc. of that belief.

Billybob - I apologize for misunderstanding and asserting that you were rejecting the core beliefs of Christianity. I think it is great that you do not reject them.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Now thats funny

 

[Dale00]

So, he sent himself to kill himself to save some of us from himself or the hell he created.

Makes sense.

My ways are above his ways because I don't require death or torture as penalty for mistakes. Your god is pretty brutal and not worthy of my endorsement. I agree with the holocaust prisoner who wrote on a wall....

"If there is a god, he's going to have to beg me for forgiveness."

The Christian concept of free will is a rope your god gives to everyone... Even those he knows are inacpable of handling it... "Now, go.... Hang yourself with it for all eternity... Because I love you." -God

Lots of emotion here. I could do a similar rant about automobiles and the terrible amounts of death and suffering that occur in traffic accidents. But I would not be seeing the big picture.

 

[Okie4570]

Of course you don't... To successfully indoctrinate you they must only teach you things you would not object to... It strengthens your faith.

Or possibly it was just not age appropriate?

 

[MaddSkillz]

Lots of emotion here. I could do a similar rant about automobiles and the terrible amounts of death and suffering that occur in traffic accidents. But I would not be seeing the big picture.

That fact that you think those two are even remotely similar is disappointing.

 

[SoonerATC]

You are trying to compare child rape with me getting in trouble with my parents for eating too many cookies. Logic is lacking.
Yes, I do criticize your "him" for letting 2 year olds who cannot even wipe their own ass get raped and murdered but allow the child rapist and murder to go to your heaven. You and your child rapist buddy can room together in heaven.

Would you let a baby rapist stay in your house, just because he said "sorry". Oops, did it agian, but I am sorry again.


And please do not atone what I say as a personal attack or malicious.

I knew you would have an issue with the example of fighting with your parents, but I was fairly confident you hadn't murdered or raped anyone. The principle is the same. You're saying there shouldn't be second chances.

And forgiveness is more than just saying "sorry". In Catholicism, it's a formal process of confession and penance. Confession is your admission what you did was wrong, but a penance must still be done. Either you do penance on Earth, or you do Penance in Purgatory before entering Heaven. Even venial sins - jealousy, anger, etc need to be atoned for.

Not every sin automatically condemns you to Hell. Catholics refer to those sins as mortal sins (they essentially condemn you to eternal "death"). Venial sins won't condemn you to hell (swearing, impatience, minor lies, etc), but still require penance as they are an offense against God. The difference between mortal sins and venial sins is sometimes a very thin line and usually has to do with the context. A lie about taking a cookie from the cookie jar would be venial, but a lie that resulted in someone's death would likely be considered mortal.

 

[JD8]

I think our discussion is proof that when respect is practiced, communication is facilitated.

Can anyone argue another into believing something or giving up a belief? No. The best that believers can do is lay out a buffet and invite people to partake or not as they wish. People make up their own minds based on personal experiences, confirmation bias/comfort and some very complex inner processes. I am a bit of a skeptic about logic being the primary reason behind people's beliefs. I think logic is a powerful tool but we use it to justify emotion-based decisions rather than relying on it guide us as a primary driver. Logic is also limited by what a person accepts as truth - the premises of an argument.

I know many people in the sciences who are religious. They use logic rigorously in their research. And there are Christian fellowships at every big name university famous for scientific research. This is a problem for atheists to explain, I think.

A vast majority of religious people I have met, derive their conclusions in terms of spirtuality off emotions, not logic, in the true sense of the word anyways. In essence, by far and large, you have a demographic that is insecure about their mortality and need feel good validation. Which is why the masses are so easily controlled by "religious men." On the other hand, science is the pursuit of knowledge and facts through repeatable results. Many scientists embrace spirituality, always have, as it doesn't mean that you can't have one without the other. A true scientist most likely can't deny the possibility of a "god." However, a true scientist could easily apply facts and logic to deny the existence of a "god" that many religions describe..... especially christianity... and especially in light of the significant amount of fallacies that "religious" men provide.