Here's what your single payer healthcare funding would look like.

dlbleak

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Every hospital takes in uninsured or homeless patients. More than most of us realize. The are charities that pick up some of the costs but ultimately the hospital pays for most of it. The cost is passed on to the insurance companies. Now, there are probably some write-offs somewhere but that would mainly be ‘for profit’ institutions.
In order for anything else to work, there would have to be a plan implemented within 24 hours. It would have to be totally private or totally government run. Anything else and we’d be right ack where we are.
There is no single answer. Every player has some responsibility except for the ones actually paying the bill, you and me.
 

El Pablo

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i just got a 400 something dollar bill today from the hospital from an ER visit for my daughter back in March. Complete with a phone call today saying I’m late. Already paid 2900 something to the hospital when the first bill came in back in April. Which was the total. I hate our medical system. You get unexpected bills for months/years afterwards and have to spend way too much time arguing with insurance and hospitals.
 

sherrick13

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I get allocated cost of overhead, I just don't buy that its responsible for the ludicrous cost of hospital stay with just a teensy bit left over for the hospital. And that is not including the cost of medicine, medical equipment and paraphernalia.

And again, what is YOUR idea to make health care affordable? So far all you have done is critiqued mine without offering any ideas. I agree that I don't want the government fully in charge of it. I've seen way to many people screwed by the VA including family members. But something has to be done. I've also seen what paying for a long, drawn out medical emergency can do to people.
Create competition.
 

SlugSlinger

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i just got a 400 something dollar bill today from the hospital from an ER visit for my daughter back in March. Complete with a phone call today saying I’m late. Already paid 2900 something to the hospital when the first bill came in back in April. Which was the total. I hate our medical system. You get unexpected bills for months/years afterwards and have to spend way too much time arguing with insurance and hospitals.
Does this apply to your situation?

 

Tanis143

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Create competition.
How can there be competition? For hospitals, you really don't have a choice nor a chance to compare prices when you are being rushed to the emergency room. For medication, thankfully a lot of the day to day meds are available in generic form, but some of the most needed (i.e. insulin and epi pens) those patents are closely guarded and the costs for those two alone have skyrocketed. It took several years and almost an act of congress to get a generic form of the epi pen to the market. The name brand of an epipen is almost $700 per set of 2 while the generic is half that, before insurance. You used to be able to get a set of epipens (name brand mind you) for $94 before Mylan bought the patent in 2007. Tell me how that model is working. The same thing happened with insulin. Both these drugs are life saving yet there are people everyday who die because they could not afford them.

I'm sorry, but the capitalist model simply does not work for the medical field. Same reason it doesn't work for electric, gas and water companies.
 

sherrick13

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How can there be competition? For hospitals, you really don't have a choice nor a chance to compare prices when you are being rushed to the emergency room. For medication, thankfully a lot of the day to day meds are available in generic form, but some of the most needed (i.e. insulin and epi pens) those patents are closely guarded and the costs for those two alone have skyrocketed. It took several years and almost an act of congress to get a generic form of the epi pen to the market. The name brand of an epipen is almost $700 per set of 2 while the generic is half that, before insurance. You used to be able to get a set of epipens (name brand mind you) for $94 before Mylan bought the patent in 2007. Tell me how that model is working. The same thing happened with insulin. Both these drugs are life saving yet there are people everyday who die because they could not afford them.

I'm sorry, but the capitalist model simply does not work for the medical field. Same reason it doesn't work for electric, gas and water companies.

Massive amounts of ways. First, allow insurance companies to sell across state lines. Allow catastrophic polices to be sold (get rid of obamacare). Allow free access to foreign drug companies.

Those three items would solve 50% of the problem.
 

JD8

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How can there be competition? For hospitals, you really don't have a choice nor a chance to compare prices when you are being rushed to the emergency room. For medication, thankfully a lot of the day to day meds are available in generic form, but some of the most needed (i.e. insulin and epi pens) those patents are closely guarded and the costs for those two alone have skyrocketed. It took several years and almost an act of congress to get a generic form of the epi pen to the market. The name brand of an epipen is almost $700 per set of 2 while the generic is half that, before insurance. You used to be able to get a set of epipens (name brand mind you) for $94 before Mylan bought the patent in 2007. Tell me how that model is working. The same thing happened with insulin. Both these drugs are life saving yet there are people everyday who die because they could not afford them.

I'm sorry, but the capitalist model simply does not work for the medical field. Same reason it doesn't work for electric, gas and water companies.

Competition can come in several ways. What if pricing was posted? What if a feedback system was employed? How about an easier way to reference doctors within the system. Systems used to try to recruit the best doctors..... now... not so much. Why is that?
 

Tanis143

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Massive amounts of ways. First, allow insurance companies to sell across state lines. Allow catastrophic polices to be sold (get rid of obamacare). Allow free access to foreign drug companies.

Those three items would solve 50% of the problem.
On the first topic, selling across state lines, hard no. If you have ever had to deal with a cheap rate car insurance company you would understand why. Those cheap plans would be based on the loosest regulations they could find and you would find out the hard way that you paid money for insurance that you would never see. That is how these cheapskate car insurance companies work, they sell an insurance policy that uses the loosest definition of what is covered. Catastrophic policies are almost the same, just applied differently in that those in good health who never have to see a doctor would find the cheaper rates but those with chronic health issues would face higher premiums, copays and lower lifetime allowable amounts. And you are ignoring the biggest problem, medical insurance is directly tied to the cost of health care. As health care costs increase, insurance pays for it but then raises their rates on all their customers. So those of us who don't use the insurance pays for those that do. I'm looking at ways to lower the cost of health care so that not only does it not become a burden on those who are forced to using a hospital but overall costs for insurance should go down as well. As far as foreign drug manufacturers, thats a short term solution as it would do the same thing to the medical industry as cheap goods from overseas did to our industrial manufacturing over the last 50 years. If you ever had to deal with a cheap Dorman car part, think of that but with medicine.


Competition can come in several ways. What if pricing was posted? What if a feedback system was employed? How about an easier way to reference doctors within the system. Systems used to try to recruit the best doctors..... now... not so much. Why is that?

That would work for regular office visits, but how would that help in an emergency visit? You don't get a choice when taken by ambulance generally, and especially if you are unresponsive. Then you are stuck paying whatever the hospital and ambulance company charges you.


And the reason I argue about this so much is my family has been subjected to all of this. I had a sister with chronic health issues due hydrocephalus. By the time she was 12 she had gone through 4-5 cranial surgeries to install shunts. Over my and their childhood we had many trips to the hospital by ambulance. These medical bills were a huge stress on my parents and partially the reason they divorced. My brother has technically been dead twice in his lifetime with the last one from a horrific car accident on Christmas eve in 2019. He will never be able to pay off his medical bills. Right now Its well into the 800k range and still climbing.

This is why I advocated anything to do with health care be non-profit. Not just hospitals, but drug manufacturers, medical supplies, medical devices, etc. If there is a better idea to lower the costs of those items, I'll be for it. But allowing the medical industry to charge whatever it wants for their goods and service is the problem and trying to find cheaper ways to pays those costs is an illusionary effort. Someone will end up paying those costs at some point.
 

sherrick13

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On the first topic, selling across state lines, hard no. If you have ever had to deal with a cheap rate car insurance company you would understand why. Those cheap plans would be based on the loosest regulations they could find and you would find out the hard way that you paid money for insurance that you would never see. That is how these cheapskate car insurance companies work, they sell an insurance policy that uses the loosest definition of what is covered. Catastrophic policies are almost the same, just applied differently in that those in good health who never have to see a doctor would find the cheaper rates but those with chronic health issues would face higher premiums, copays and lower lifetime allowable amounts. And you are ignoring the biggest problem, medical insurance is directly tied to the cost of health care. As health care costs increase, insurance pays for it but then raises their rates on all their customers. So those of us who don't use the insurance pays for those that do. I'm looking at ways to lower the cost of health care so that not only does it not become a burden on those who are forced to using a hospital but overall costs for insurance should go down as well. As far as foreign drug manufacturers, thats a short term solution as it would do the same thing to the medical industry as cheap goods from overseas did to our industrial manufacturing over the last 50 years. If you ever had to deal with a cheap Dorman car part, think of that but with medicine.




That would work for regular office visits, but how would that help in an emergency visit? You don't get a choice when taken by ambulance generally, and especially if you are unresponsive. Then you are stuck paying whatever the hospital and ambulance company charges you.


And the reason I argue about this so much is my family has been subjected to all of this. I had a sister with chronic health issues due hydrocephalus. By the time she was 12 she had gone through 4-5 cranial surgeries to install shunts. Over my and their childhood we had many trips to the hospital by ambulance. These medical bills were a huge stress on my parents and partially the reason they divorced. My brother has technically been dead twice in his lifetime with the last one from a horrific car accident on Christmas eve in 2019. He will never be able to pay off his medical bills. Right now Its well into the 800k range and still climbing.

This is why I advocated anything to do with health care be non-profit. Not just hospitals, but drug manufacturers, medical supplies, medical devices, etc. If there is a better idea to lower the costs of those items, I'll be for it. But allowing the medical industry to charge whatever it wants for their goods and service is the problem and trying to find cheaper ways to pays those costs is an illusionary effort. Someone will end up paying those costs at some point.
I get it. You think .gov can do things better. And they should force others (ultimately at gunpoint) to pay for your medical care.

I absolutely disagree. Absolutely.
 

El Pablo

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I get it. You think .gov can do things better. And they should force others (ultimately at gunpoint) to pay for your medical care.

I absolutely disagree. Absolutely.
Interesting since he didn’t mention the gov once.

Others already pay for the medical care others can’t pay for.
 

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