LEO Off-Duty Open Carry

[LtCCMPUnit42]

false.... AN LEO can carry in church in any state in the union...

HR-218 Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act....

google it

If in uniform, or in the course of his official duties,

 

[Traxxis]

I completely agree with Michael... you're enough of a target rolling around in a car with lights on it, in uniform with your vest... let alone out in town off duty when you don't have any sort of body armor.

It's a recipe for bad juju.

It is not legal for an LEO to carry openly, off duty, without the prescribed uniform.

However, there two issues:

1) How did you know he was off-duty?

2) What is the "uniform" for his daily assignment?

If his daily uniform is a plainclothes assignment, he is in uniform however displaying a gun and no badge is not a good decision.

If he was on-duty, no issue either way other than the previously mentioned problem.

When I was assigned to plainclothes, I concealed my firearm just like off-duty as I believe open-carrying out of uniform to be a poor decision.

Many do not agree but if open carrying out of uniform is the worst tactical decision I see an officer make, I will be a happy man.

Michael Brown

 

[Traxxis]

I was in the bathroom at walmart today, First thing I saw was a full Size M&P in a blackhawk holster on his pant lying on the floor with a badge I could hardly see. At least it was there.

Anytime nature called... I ALWAYS kept my pistol on my lap. Not so much to keep people in the next stall from seeing it, but rather to keep it from touching the nasty floor.

If in uniform, or in the course of his official duties,

Nope, anywhere, anytime other than planes and certain federal buildings.

Common sense plays into that as well... an Officer should NOT be carrying a sidearm in a venue that the primary purpose is drinking... a bar.

 

[bettingpython]

Anytime nature called... I ALWAYS kept my pistol on my lap. Not so much to keep people in the next stall from seeing it, but rather to keep it from touching the nasty floor.



Nope, anywhere, anytime other than planes and certain federal buildings.

Common sense plays into that as well... an Officer should NOT be carrying a sidearm in a venue that the primary purpose is drinking... a bar.

You really need to read state statutes Traxxis. You can not carry in a bar off duty. As much respect as I do have for Officers you are not above the law, you are still bound by statute.

The LEOSA only protects from traveling in other states while carrying a firearm it does not exempt you from a law which prohibits you from carrying in specific locations off duty.

TITLE 21 § 1272.1. Carrying firearms where liquor is consumed
CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the concealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business.
Provided further, nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any peace officer in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages, except in the authorized line of duty as an undercover officer.
18
Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any private investigator with a firearms authorization in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages in any establishment where low-point beer or alcoholic beverages are consumed.
B. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1272.2 of this title.
TITLE 21 § 1272.2. Penalty for firearm in liquor establishment
PENALTY FOR FIREARM IN LIQUOR ESTABLISHMENT
Any person who intentionally or knowingly carries on his or her person any weapon in violation of Section 1272.1 of this title, shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony. The fine for a violation of this section shall not exceed One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00).
Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 26 of this act, shall have the license revoked by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation after a hearing and determination that the person is in violation of Section 1272.1 of this title.

 

[bettingpython]

Oh duh. Didn't catch the name reference. My bad. :-)

Popo can carry anywhere he want. :-) I'm jealous.

B

Wrong again.

Title 21, 1280.1 Section C Item 3.

If he is not on duty then he is bound to the same state statutes concerning K12 and technology center carry we are, unless the course of his duties requires him to carry at all times, and there better be a department policy you don't want to see a pissed off anti gun school adminstrator going on over this section trust me.

TITLE 21 § 1280.1. Possession of firearm on school property
POSSESSION OF FIREARM ON SCHOOL PROPERTY
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his or her possession on any public or private school property or while in any school bus or vehicle used by any school for transportation of students or teachers any firearm or weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title, except as provided in subsection C of this section or as otherwise authorized by law.
B. "School property" means any publicly or privately owned property held for purposes of elementary, secondary or vocational technical education, and shall not include property owned by public school districts or private educational entities where such property is leased or rented to an individual or corporation and used for purposes other than educational.
C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:
1. A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property;
2. A gun or knife used for the purposes of participating in the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation certified hunter training education course or any other hunting, fishing, safety or firearms training courses, or a recognized firearms sports event, team shooting program or competition, or living history reenactment, provided the course or event is approved by the principal or chief administrator of the school where the course or event is offered, and provided the weapon is properly displayed or stored as required by law pending participation in the course, event, program or competition; and
3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.
D. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony. The fine for a violation of this section shall not exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00). Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall have the license permanently revoked and shall be liable for an administrative fine of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Wrong again.

Title 21, 1280.1 Section C Item 3.

If he is not on duty then he is bound to the same state statutes concerning K12 and technology center carry we are, unless the course of his duties requires him to carry at all times, and there better be a department policy you don't want to see a pissed off anti gun school adminstrator going on over this section trust me.

I think this part of the statute gets confusing for everybody...

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

Let me try to explain it a little better.

As an emergency management official (LE/EMS/Fire) we are what we are and we are that 24/7. We don't get to leave our work at work.

If a medic/EMT is in Wal-Mart on their day off and they see a kid choking, they go into action. Same thing with a firefighter. They see a house engulfed in flames, they go into action.

LEOs carry their weapon...their "tool of the trade" if you will with them EVERYWHERE they go (or at least they should) because crime has no limits and no boundaries. Crime happens when and where it happens and the cops just have to live with that. Therefore, we can not say to ourselves, "well, this is a church/school/school bus, it's safe and protected from the bad guys, so I won't need my gun today."

********.

That's where the "performance and responsibilties" part of that statute comes into play. Cops are ALWAYS 10-8. We don't get to throw our hands up and say "SANCTUARY! I'M ON DAYS OFF!" No...we gotta handle the situation as it arises.

As a cop, we take an oath and we are required by law to be there and tend to the situation at hand. Having the proper tools with us for that moment that we are required to go into action is a necessity. Whether we are in our little blue suit or not, crime has to be stopped.

Because let me tell ya...you can forget all day long that you're a cop, but the one time when the **** hits the fan, and you are in your hometown, where folks know you, they ain't gonna forget you're a cop.

Then whatcha gonna do?

I've actually went on school functions with school teachers/sponsors on a bus traveling out of state and the teacher/sponsor would whisper to me, "uhhh...you have your gun with you...right?"

 

[LtCCMPUnit42]

I think this part of the statute gets confusing for everybody...

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

Let me try to explain it a little better.

As an emergency management official (LE/EMS/Fire) we are what we are and we are that 24/7. We don't get to leave our work at work.

If a medic/EMT is in Wal-Mart on their day off and they see a kid choking, they go into action. Same thing with a firefighter. They see a house engulfed in flames, they go into action.

LEOs carry their weapon...their "tool of the trade" if you will with them EVERYWHERE they go (or at least they should) because crime has no limits and no boundaries. Crime happens when and where it happens and the cops just have to live with that. Therefore, we can not say to ourselves, "well, this is a church/school/school bus, it's safe and protected from the bad guys, so I won't need my gun today."

********.

That's where the "performance and responsibilties" part of that statute comes into play. Cops are ALWAYS 10-8. We don't get to throw our hands up and say "SANCTUARY! I'M ON DAYS OFF!" No...we gotta handle the situation as it arises.

As a cop, we take an oath and we are required by law to be there and tend to the situation at hand. Having the proper tools with us for that moment that we are required to go into action is a necessity. Whether we are in our little blue suit or not, crime has to be stopped.

Because let me tell ya...you can forget all day long that you're a cop, but the one time when the **** hits the fan, and you are in your hometown, where folks know you, they ain't gonna forget you're a cop.

Then whatcha gonna do?

I've actually went on school functions with school teachers/sponsors on a bus traveling out of state and the teacher/sponsor would whisper to me, "uhhh...you have your gun with you...right?"

 

[loudshirt]

I think this part of the statute gets confusing for everybody...

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

Let me try to explain it a little better.

As an emergency management official (LE/EMS/Fire) we are what we are and we are that 24/7. We don't get to leave our work at work.

If a medic/EMT is in Wal-Mart on their day off and they see a kid choking, they go into action. Same thing with a firefighter. They see a house engulfed in flames, they go into action.

LEOs carry their weapon...their "tool of the trade" if you will with them EVERYWHERE they go (or at least they should) because crime has no limits and no boundaries. Crime happens when and where it happens and the cops just have to live with that. Therefore, we can not say to ourselves, "well, this is a church/school/school bus, it's safe and protected from the bad guys, so I won't need my gun today."

********.

That's where the "performance and responsibilties" part of that statute comes into play. Cops are ALWAYS 10-8. We don't get to throw our hands up and say "SANCTUARY! I'M ON DAYS OFF!" No...we gotta handle the situation as it arises.

As a cop, we take an oath and we are required by law to be there and tend to the situation at hand. Having the proper tools with us for that moment that we are required to go into action is a necessity. Whether we are in our little blue suit or not, crime has to be stopped.

Because let me tell ya...you can forget all day long that you're a cop, but the one time when the **** hits the fan, and you are in your hometown, where folks know you, they ain't gonna forget you're a cop.

Then whatcha gonna do?

I've actually went on school functions with school teachers/sponsors on a bus traveling out of state and the teacher/sponsor would whisper to me, "uhhh...you have your gun with you...right?"

I understand what you are saying. I wish all public officials took their job so seriously. I do not agree that you are on duty 24/7. I do agree that you don't really have a "day off". My question to you is during your time as a police officer are you telling me that you never had one drink since you were on duty 24/7? You can not have it both ways. If you are on duty and possess a firearm you can not drink unless related to undercover. If you are off duty/not in the performance of official duty it is against the law to possess a firearm in a bar if you are not the owner.

 

[liliysdad]

The interpretation of the law that I have seen is this;

3. Weapons in the possession of any peace officer.(PERIOD) Or other person authorized by law to possess a weapon in the performance of their duties and responsibilities.

It is a against the law for an off duty peace officer to carry a weapon while consuming alcohol. It is not, as I understand and have been told by district attorneys, illegal to possess the weapon in a bar, or school. Why an off duty officer would be armed in a bar in bar in the first place is beyond me, but there it is.

 

[Glock 'em down]

I understand what you are saying. I wish all public officials took their job so seriously. I do not agree that you are on duty 24/7. I do agree that you don't really have a "day off". My question to you is during your time as a police officer are you telling me that you never had one drink since you were on duty 24/7? You can not have it both ways. If you are on duty and possess a firearm you can not drink unless related to undercover. If you are off duty/not in the performance of official duty it is against the law to possess a firearm in a bar if you are not the owner.

I'll say this much. The first time you work a gut-slingin' wreck on the side of the highway that is alcohol related, you kinda lose the taste for drinking.

I also feel compelled to say that there is a difference between "drinking" and tying one on. I think it's hypocritical and just downright embarrassing for a cop to get plastered. It just looks bad for the rest of the cops out there that are trying to do the right thing and set an example.

As for hanging out in the bar? No, I've never been one to frequent saloons. During my mid-life crisis 5 years ago, this girl I was seeing did drag me to the bar with her a few times, but I left my iron in the car and I stopped at a shot and two beers.

Something about being a control freak, I guess.

So yeah, I guess if you wanna say I was drinking while on duty, I suppose you are correct.