Marines Choose 9mm Glock 19 OVER .45 ACP 1911 for Special Operators

[YukonGlocker]

The comment was about ball ammo vs modern SP and HP ammo that everybody but the military can use. I've studied it for years myself.

Then where's the evidence that .40/.45 ball is better than 9mm ball?

 

[druryj]

Then where's the evidence that .40/.45 ball is better than 9mm ball?

I don't know about specific evidence when comparing balls. I do understand the difference in 115 gr and 230 gr of lead slamming into a piece of meat and bone though.


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[dennishoddy]

Then where's the evidence that .40/.45 ball is better than 9mm ball?

The problem is that there is very little discussion about ball ammo effectiveness between calibers.
The main point is that there are more rounds available with the 9mm for spray and pray.
Quote from the link:
“We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19,” Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times.
99.9% of gun owners are not extremely well-trained marksman. We all know that one round from a .45 will remove a limb. The 9mm won't.

the kenetic energy speaks for itself.

 

[HiredHand]

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power
3:00PM FRIDAY, JULY 08, 2011
by Greg Ellifritz

Some interesting findings:
I think the most interesting statistic is the percentage of people who stopped with one shot to the torso or head. There wasn't much variation between calibers. Between the most common defensive calibers (.38, 9mm, .40, and .45) there was a spread of only eight percentage points. No matter what gun you are shooting, you can only expect a little more than half of the people you shoot to be immediately incapacitated by your first hit. The average number of rounds until incapacitation was also remarkably similar between calibers. All the common defensive calibers required around 2 rounds on average to incapacitate.

 

[Shadowrider]

You made a comment about the FBI, which can use modern ammo. I'd love to see the evidence that .40/.45 is more lethal than 9mm; I've studied this for years, and it doesn't exist (to my knowledge). In a great deal of both (a) scientific ballistic tests, and (b) actual shootings, 9mm has demonstrated to work just as well.

Perhaps you should study up on the Moro warriors of the Philippines. They single handedly caused our military to drop .38 caliber handguns like a hot rock. Problem is that our brainiacs in the pentagon forgot the lesson of bullet riddled soon-to-be corpses chopping up American soldiers with kris and barong.

 

[dennishoddy]

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power
3:00PM FRIDAY, JULY 08, 2011
by Greg Ellifritz

Some interesting findings:
I think the most interesting statistic is the percentage of people who stopped with one shot to the torso or head. There wasn't much variation between calibers. Between the most common defensive calibers (.38, 9mm, .40, and .45) there was a spread of only eight percentage points. No matter what gun you are shooting, you can only expect a little more than half of the people you shoot to be immediately incapacitated by your first hit. The average number of rounds until incapacitation was also remarkably similar between calibers. All the common defensive calibers required around 2 rounds on average to incapacitate.

I've been trolling a bit, but in reality, it takes a hit that causes the maximum of blood loss to the brain to cause death or a round that hits the spinal column to instantly drop the subject being shot. Human or animal.
There are some that will argue to the death that the larger diameter of the .45 ball will nick an artery that the 9mm ball will miss.
Possibly, but it would be a huge stretch for that to happen. Not saying it hasn't , but I'll leave that there.
99.9% of gun owners are not highly trained.
99.5% are marginally trained by going to the range a few times a year and shooting a box of ammo.
(percentages are just my thoughts, and not actual data)
So that leaves the rest. We help train some Army reserve troops at our range. Some of the newbs try to load the mag backwards. Even though they have been through Basic Training, they are newbs with rifles. We also use the Berretta M9 for their training. In their basic training, it seems they do not get adequate training. I'm sure with AIT they get much more hands on, but for the reserves, they only get to qualify with 40 rounds per year with the current AR rifle.
Not sure if they get training at all with the M9 other than some familiarization.

 

[YukonGlocker]

Perhaps you should study up on the Moro warriors of the Philippines. They single handedly caused our military to drop .38 caliber handguns like a hot rock. Problem is that our brainiacs in the pentagon forgot the lesson of bullet riddled soon-to-be corpses chopping up American soldiers with kris and barong.

I have "studied up". lmfao

 

[firefighterguy]

I've been trolling a bit, but in reality, it takes a hit that causes the maximum of blood loss to the brain to cause death or a round that hits the spinal column to instantly drop the subject being shot. Human or animal.
There are some that will argue to the death that the larger diameter of the .45 ball will nick an artery that the 9mm ball will miss.
Possibly, but it would be a huge stretch for that to happen. Not saying it hasn't , but I'll leave that there.
99.9% of gun owners are not highly trained.
99.5% are marginally trained by going to the range a few times a year and shooting a box of ammo.
(percentages are just my thoughts, and not actual data)
So that leaves the rest. We help train some Army reserve troops at our range. Some of the newbs try to load the mag backwards. Even though they have been through Basic Training, they are newbs with rifles. We also use the Berretta M9 for their training. In their basic training, it seems they do not get adequate training. I'm sure with AIT they get much more hands on, but for the reserves, they only get to qualify with 40 rounds per year with the current AR rifle.
Not sure if they get training at all with the M9 other than some familiarization.

There's also physchological 1 hit stops. Wouldn't matter what round you shoot the individual with, their will to fight is instantly subdued.

 

[druryj]

There's also physchological 1 hit stops. Wouldn't matter what round you shoot the individual with, their will to fight is instantly subdued.

Pain ... and the shock of being shot.

 

[HiredHand]

Fun story from a dentist about a patient that came in with some dental issues. https://revolverscience.com/2016/04/08/45-acp-to-the-midface/