Media misrepresents Heartland Outdoors

[z06man]

That's a pretty gun, but it's your broomhandles and Lugers that I'd love to see.

I think people should have the right to open carry. The only way I see it benifitting me is if mine were accidentally exposed. Not having to worry about it so much would be nice.

 

[Griffinreich01]

Why the training for Oklahomas CCW permit is a joke, do you really think the training for an open carry permit is going to be any better? Not likely and why should someone have to pass a test to be able to defend themselves in public.

While I partially agree with your statement, any training is better than no training. When you get ur car, you are required to get a license before you drive it... it should be the same with guns. Training reduces the amount of insufficient users. Its a numbers game. And yes, most training classes are a joke, and that needs to change. The NRA is basically handing out licenses at this point to anyone who pays them for the right to be an instructor. I support the NRA, so please, no hate mail.

There was also a person on here that quoted me, and continued to say that forced training would require money, and some people can't afford it, therefore stripping them of their second amendment. Number #1 the second amendment uses the term 'well regulated militia' also refered to as "well trained". Secondly, if someone cannot afford the $65 (assuming the fee remains the same as the CCW course, which by law you cannot be charged more for your CCW class than $65, so if you were, like gun world who is charging $200, u should have paid attention to the law.), how can they afford the gun in question, or the ammo to feed it. Its not a right to carry them with u, it is a right to OWN them. Look I'm a firm believer in the 2A, I will die to defend it, but there is NOTHING wrong with training. The 2A actually demands it. Respectfully, my humble opinion.

 

[BluRaySS]

While I partially agree with your statement, any training is better than no training. When you get ur car, you are required to get a license before you drive it... it should be the same with guns. Training reduces the amount of insufficient users. Its a numbers game. And yes, most training classes are a joke, and that needs to change. The NRA is basically handing out licenses at this point to anyone who pays them for the right to be an instructor. I support the NRA, so please, no hate mail.

There was also a person on here that quoted me, and continued to say that forced training would require money, and some people can't afford it, therefore stripping them of their second amendment. Number #1 the second amendment uses the term 'well regulated militia' also refered to as "well trained". Secondly, if someone cannot afford the $65 (assuming the fee remains the same as the CCW course, which by law you cannot be charged more for your CCW class than $65, so if you were, like gun world who is charging $200, u should have paid attention to the law.), how can they afford the gun in question, or the ammo to feed it. Its not a right to carry them with u, it is a right to OWN them. Look I'm a firm believer in the 2A, I will die to defend it, but there is NOTHING wrong with training. The 2A actually demands it. Respectfully, my humble opinion.

lol, that was me that quoted ya. That is a bit out of context on the 2A, but I see your point. There is also the case for our current situation for those who were once prosperous and are now completely broke. Above that who is to say what training is? A large portion of those in the civil war had no official training at all. They relied on what was taught to them by others or passed down by fathers.
Training is always a good thing if voluntary and welcomed by the student, but it is not the gov's place to say what that is. In the essence of the drivers license thing, most kids are taught to drive by their parents. Let's face it, it does little for the numbers game. The test is simply to see if they retained any of the book and a reason to charge people money. In the end what the book tells you means VERY little. You only have to drive in OKC to see that! Then when something does happen, it is up to lawyers to see who makes the best case. Seldom does it matter who was right or wrong.

Honestly I see any mandatory training as something to be held against you when black and white merge into gray before a judge.

 

[Griffinreich01]

lol, that was me that quoted ya. That is a bit out of context on the 2A, but I see your point. There is also the case for our current situation for those who were once prosperous and are now completely broke. Above that who is to say what training is? A large portion of those in the civil war had no official training at all. They relied on what was taught to them by others or passed down by fathers.
Training is always a good thing if voluntary and welcomed by the student, but it is not the gov's place to say what that is. In the essence of the drivers license thing, most kids are taught to drive by their parents. Let's face it, it does little for the numbers game. The test is simply to see if they retained any of the book and a reason to charge people money. In the end what the book tells you means VERY little. You only have to drive in OKC to see that! Then when something does happen, it is up to lawyers to see who makes the best case. Seldom does it matter who was right or wrong.

Honestly I see any mandatory training as something to be held against you when black and white merge into gray before a judge.

And I can see, and appreciate, where your coming from aswell. If it were up to me, local law enforcement should be required to offer free classes to the public.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

This whole thread is a tempest in a teapot.

"Everyone" (read, vocal minority) on OSA feels the 2A is threatened by someone exercising the First Amendment....and that he should be fired for it! But even then, they will still boycott HO!

But these same people "feel uncomfortable" if they see someone open-carrying a gun, or that extra training should be required for OC!

AZ has had open carry for years. Not too many shoot outs in the street in AZ......and if someone had been open carrying at the Giffords event, maybe the guy would've thought better of it, or been shot post haste by the GOOD GUY carrying the gun.

I guess they don't know that Vermont hasn't required a ccw permit EVER, the only stipulation being you can't do so with "malicious intent." Not a lotta mayhem going on there as a result, so where's the "logic" that says things will inexplicably go super whacky here if OC passes?

The inconsistency, animosity and outright stupidity in this thread boggles the mind.

If you "feel" that HO has threatened your 2A rights because one of their employees said something far less offensive than most of these anti-HO posts, regardless of the fact that HO sells evil black rifles, or that they will host an upcoming FULL AUTO shoot, or that they hold numerous SDA classes, or that they host Carrygun matches and other classes that will benefit the good guy, or that they, the Company, opposes ANY restrictions of the 2A, well, maybe you should inflict your presence on someone else!

I have already said it doesnt make me any difference. I like HO.

Here comes the but.

But, the people who took offense to Cleo's statements are exercising their 1A.
Saying that people holding HO accountable are not thinking logically, is illogical. There can be found a logical though process by which HO is accountable for things its employees say and do, on or off the clock, more-so when things are said and done within the confines of the brick and mortar establishment. Do I think the fellar should be fired? Certainly not. But there should be, and I imagine there has been, a chat with him as to when it is appropriate to express Cleo, the individual's, views and when to express Cleo, the employee of HO while on company property's, view. I have had to do the same thing in the past. When my views dont jibe with the company, and when I am in a light that can cast a shadow on the company, my professionalism tells me to just keep my mouth shut.

To reiterate, I dont think there should be any law allowing a person to carry open. I think that is something already given to us under the constitution. I have and will most likely continue to do business with HO (crap happens, people talk when they shouldnt, I see it happen all the time).

 

[z06man]

Why the training for Oklahomas CCW permit is a joke, do you really think the training for an open carry permit is going to be any better? Not likely and why should someone have to pass a test to be able to defend themselves in public.

What most people don't understand is that it is NOT a firearms training class. It is a law class and the firearms part is purely to demonstrate that you know how to safely handle a firearm. Not that you know how to effectively USE a firearm, just that you aren't a complete moron when it comes to firearm handling and from what I've heard and seen many instructors are pretty lax on the safe handling part too.

 

[h8ns8n]

I like HO and will continue to do business there, and I like Cleo alot......however I think the fact that the employees including Cleo, open carry while at work seems to be a double standard. I understand that you and your employeees can open carry at your personal business and that is the right they are excercising. but i think if you feel the need to open carry at your work but not at other businesses that doesn't make sense. It is also my opinion but seems to be backed up by statistics, that a bank teller would be at much greater risk of robbery than a gun store employee (while at work) so it seems like the teller should be the one that is allowed to "carry open".
the impression I always get when visiting a gun store because all the employees have exposed firearms is that they are very "open carry" friendly. that may not be the message they are tryingh to send but that is the one I get.

 

[Hump66]

...
"Cleo Land is an employee at Heartland Outdoors in Edmond and has over 30 plus years of experience as an Edmond police officer. He said he worries those like Wesselhoft have the wrong message.
"I prefer the element of surprise when it comes to carrying firearms," Land said.
Land said he believes openly carrying a weapon won't deter criminals but instead make those who choose to openly carry a target.

Two big points before I get all up in arms about Heartland. (my mistake for making an assumption before first cup of coffee is gone).

1). Mr. Land is an employee, so that doesn't mean "Heartland Outdoors" as an entity is against open carry.
2). Mr. Land, in the context of the article, does not state that he is against the open carry legislation. He states a personal opinion about the actual practice of open carry.

This. I can't believe that you all are going to "boycott" a store based on 1 mans opinion. It seems to me that you all are buying into the medias spin on this story. He never said he was against OC, yet under his name they put "opposes open carry" in the banner. Good job buying in on the media hype gang. Did anyone notice that the range shots at the beginning were at H&H? I'm guessing they have a better policy about speaking to the media. Go ahead and feel free to boycott away!!! More range time for me!!!

 

[Fyrtwuck]

I don't drink alcohol but I do smoke cigarettes and currently the taxes on cigarettes is higher than the price of the cigarettes, I think they should tax beer, wine, and liquer just as heavily as cigarettes. Personnally I'm pretty tired of payin for your grandmothers pills.

You don't have to worry about my Grandmothers. They're DEAD.

 

[338Shooter]

It doesn't matter to me how you express your rights. But if I see you walk in carrying openly where I am don't get warped if you notice that I am walking as far from you as the environment allows and taking my family and friends with me. I have seen bad things happen and I want no part of you. Has nothing to do with rights in my view. It has everything to do with common sense and experience to me. I got shot by a store burglar in 1980 and if you want to call me scared because you have no experience then feel free.

You're allowed to walk as far away from me as you can. I'll be carrying a gun after all. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.