Reloading Newbie Questions - Flaring and Crimping

[Horty]

I have recently gotten into reloading and am starting simple with 45 Automatic for my 1911. I have searched for an answer to my question on here but have not come up with exactly what I am looking for so I am going to go ahead and just post this and hope that I am not asking a duplicate question. Anyway, my question is about flaring and crimping. I have a Hornady Single Press and am using Lee Reloading Dies. I have a Carbide Sizing Die, an Expanding die and a Bullet seat and Feed Die.

As for flaring, how do I know how much to do? The instructions say to only flare enough to "easily accept a bullet" but I do not have a good concept of home much that is. Should I flare as far down in the neck as the actuall bullet will sit once seated for Max Overall Length? Or should I just flare enough on the top of the neck to let the bullet sit on top and let the bullet seating step force the bullet the rest of the way in?

Now for crimping. My dies do not say whether they put a roll or taper crimp, does anyone know what type of crimp Lee dies apply? Or can someone please post a good picture showing the difference between a roll and a taper crimp. If it is applying a taper crimp, which is what I want, how much crimp do I want. Or can someone look at the picture I posted below and tell me what type of crimp was applied. The instructions say to screw the die in until it touches the shell holder then back it out three turns then screw it back in slightly and test each tiny turn until "proper" crimp is formed, what is the "proper" crimp? I have run a few test rounds through just to experiment (they have no powder or primers in them) and I have attached a picture of one below. I think that this is an example of over crimpping and just wanted to confirm with you all.

Thanks in advance for the help.

-Martin

 

[Fyrtwuck]

The depth of the flare is just enough that the bullet will sit in top of the case without falling out. Not very much at all.

As far as crimping, 45 ACP takes a taper crimp. Your Lee dies should do fine. If you get too much crimp, you'll deform the case. You want the crimp tight enough to hold the bullet in place without "setting back" as it hits the ramp of your auto as it goes in the chamber. "Set back" is when the bullet hits the feed ramp and the bullet moves rearward in the case.

The case you have pictured looks like it has a slight roll crimp. A little too tight but it will probably chamber and shoot fine.

Look at a .38 bullet and you'll see a "roll" crimp.

 

[Shriner]

Flaring -- open the neck just eough that a bullet will fit , too must flare over works the neck and will lead to cracks.

Crimping--- crimp to case to point you can't push the bullet back into the case with your fingers . I think most Lee pistol die sets come with a factory crimp die (lee speak for taper crimp ) .

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Buzzdraw]

In .45 ACP, it used to be common to find roll crimp dies, but this is no longer the norm. Taper crimp, to .469" +/- .0005 works well for feeding and accuracy.

The bullet is held in place, in a .45 ACP, by more than just the crimp, or at least it is in a more optimal world. GI factory ammo sometimes has the black asphalt-like sticky stuff, in addition (sometimes) to having a cannelure rolled into the case at the base of the bullet.

When reloading .45 ACP, it is a good idea to use a sizing die that will take the diameter of the case down to the small end of spec's. In this instance, you can actually see the bullet body outside the loaded round. Additionally the base of the bullet is held better in place by the diameter of the case wall.

 

[Horty]

Thanks for the info everyone, very helpful. I can tell this whole reloading thing is going to be one huge learning process but so far I like it. I have another newbie question for you all...

I am using a Hornady Reloading book with Sierra bullets and Lee dies and am getting different overall cartridge lengths from different manufs. Hornady is saying a case overall length of 1.230 for their 230 grain bullet, Lee is saying a max overall case length of 1.275 for .45 Auto and I can't seem to find anything from Sierra about the overall case length for their 230 grain Tournament Master bullets. Which one of these numbers should I go by?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Pulp]

When a book says a max length, that is based on their pressure testing, not someone else's, so you sometimes get different lengths from different manuals.

Flaring: like others have said, as little flare as needed to start a bullet. Flatbased bullets need a bit more than taper based bullets. Too much flare may cause crimping troubles. I know in .44-40 I sometimes get a bulge below the crimp if I put too much flare on the case. The only way to get that bulge out is to pull the de-priming pin from the resizing die and run it through again. Not good for accuracy, but excellent for easy feeding in tight chambered guns. I've never had to do that with .45ACP, but I'm pretty new at loading them also.

Crimping: most folks say the Lee Factory Crimp die is as good as it gets. Not everyone, mind you, but most. Use the regular seating/ crimping die for seating only, then run it through the FCD.

 

[Horty]

Ok well as for overall case length if anyone has the Sierra Reloading Handbook can you please tell me what it says the overall case length should be for 45 Cal 230 grain FMJ (.4515 diameter) Tournament Master bullets should be, I am just curious. The serial number of these bullets is 8815. Thanks everyone.

 

[Blitzfike]

You didn't mention what powder you are using. Some powders are very forgiving of bullet seating depth while others, Accurate #5 for one tend to jack pressures up very quickly if bullets are seated deeper than specified. In most cases if you seat the bullet so that there is some clearance between the bullet nose and the front of the magazine, things work pretty well. The danger in seating the bullet deeper than specified for a particular powder, causes rising pressures. At one stage of my life I carried a weapon professionally and had to be careful about inserting the same round at the top of the mag after clearing the weapon. Repeated chambering even with factory ammo tends to jam the bullet deeper in the case, causing potential pressure spikes. I usually replaced the old top round with a new one and put the other in the box for target practice. I load 9 different semi auto pistol calibers and every one is particular about crimping. A nice taper crimp or a lee factory crimp assures proper feeding. All the semi autos I load and shoot headspace on the case mouth except for 2. Too much crimp can cause headspace problems again leading to dangerous conditions. Not enough crimp causes jams when the round doesn't completely enter the chamber.

 

[HMFIC]

Ok well as for overall case length if anyone has the Sierra Reloading Handbook can you please tell me what it says the overall case length should be for 45 Cal 230 grain FMJ (.4515 diameter) Tournament Master bullets should be, I am just curious. The serial number of these bullets is 8815. Thanks everyone.

My Sierra books say 1.270" OAL for 230 gr FMJ. It's the same in the 2nd and 3rd editions. I don't have the 4th or 5th but I can't imagine it being any different.

 

[DRC458]

My Sierra books say 1.270" OAL for 230 gr FMJ. It's the same in the 2nd and 3rd editions. I don't have the 4th or 5th but I can't imagine it being any different.

Yep. 5th still shows 1.270".