Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’

[RedTape]

Did you even read the article? No one needed to be forced other house with teargas. All they had to do was show the search warrant and the people would've opened up. Instead the cops burst down the damn door. I can't believe you on here seriously defending these cops. How is barging in someone's house unannounced safe? Especially since this was not a no knock warrant. Oh sorry they knocked on the door the same time the busted down the damn door.

I wasn't there and neither were you. That's my point. You, me and certainly the reporter don't even begin to know the circumstances of what happened. How do you know they would have just opened the door? That's a pretty bold assumption. Since you're all knowing will please tell me when, where and who will shoot at me the next time I go to work? That would be awesome and much appreciated!

Since I wasn't there and don't know, I'm not making judgement...not without facts.

My points were made based on the comments being made in general by other members of the forum (I.e. comments about police not needing APC, tear gas, etc) not about the one article.

I know, I know. You didn't ask you be "monitored." Neither do the criminals. Funny. I pull a guy over for going 20 over and he cusses me out and threatens to "have your job" and tells me how he pays my salary etc etc. The next day he calls because his car got broken into and he wants me to find his property and get it back RIGHT NOW!

 

[TedKennedy]

That's terrible. I'd get another job.

 

[caojyn]

Funny. I pull a guy over for going 20 over and he cusses me out and threatens to "have your job" and tells me how he pays my salary etc etc. The next day he calls because his car got broken into and he wants me to find his property and get it back RIGHT NOW!

Did you ever find his stuff? Is he getting his money's worth?

 

[jsl_pt]

I wasn't there and neither were you. That's my point. You, me and certainly the reporter don't even begin to know the circumstances of what happened. How do you know they would have just opened the door? That's a pretty bold assumption. Since you're all knowing will please tell me when, where and who will shoot at me the next time I go to work? That would be awesome and much appreciated! Since I wasn't there and don't know, I'm not making judgement...not without facts. My points were made based on the comments being made in general by other members of the forum (I.e. comments about police not needing APC, tear gas, etc) not about the one article. I know, I know. You didn't ask you be "monitored." Neither do the criminals. Funny. I pull a guy over for going 20 over and he cusses me out and threatens to "have your job" and tells me how he pays my salary etc etc. The next day he calls because his car got broken into and he wants me to find his property and get it back RIGHT NOW!

It's a search warrant, you're required to provide the warrant to the occupants if they are present I would presume. I don't know they would have opened the door but neither do you. They said they would have but we'll never know cause the cops bear down the damn door instead, see a trend here? So you're saying since they may or may not have opened the door when a police officer knocks and announces himself then you should just bust it down any way since they might not have opened the door. Once again I repeat for the learning impaired, this was NOT a no knock warrant. And as the police bust down the door and point guns everywhere they rip down video equipment. It's crazy that you still defend this.

Next time you do a traffic stop since you don't know that the people will roll down the window just go ahead and bust it out as you walk up just in case.

 

[TedKennedy]

http://zerogov.com/?p=3244

Interesting thoughts here...

 

[Spata]

It's a search warrant, you're required to provide the warrant to the occupants if they are present I would presume. I don't know they would have opened the door but neither do you. They said they would have but we'll never know cause the cops bear down the damn door instead, see a trend here? So you're saying since they may or may not have opened the door when a police officer knocks and announces himself then you should just bust it down any way since they might not have opened the door. Once again I repeat for the learning impaired, this was NOT a no knock warrant. And as the police bust down the door and point guns everywhere they rip down video equipment. It's crazy that you still defend this.

Next time you do a traffic stop since you don't know that the people will roll down the window just go ahead and bust it out as you walk up just in case.

Gotta toss a burner through the window.

 

[Glocktogo]

I'm glad you guys all know the background of the criminals in the house. Like maybe how they have violent history of weapons possession AFCF, shooting with intent to kill, etc. Credit card fraud might just one of their many criminal endeavors. Oh that's right, you don't have their III criminal history packet. In fact you have no knowledge of who they are or what they are capable of.

Police don't have tanks. Some departments have armored vehicles which come in pretty handy when you have to make an approach on an armed and barricaded subject. When you have a guy in a house with a rifle you would want some cover too. Same thing with tear gas. If we can use that to force a subject out of a house without having to go in after him, it's safer for the police and the subject. Same thing with flashbangs. If we have to go in, the bad guy has the advantage. He knows the layout of the building and has the advantage of ambush. We are going to try to even the odds just a little bit so maybe we don't get shot in the head.

We put our lives at risk everyday. This isn't TV. This is real life where we deal with people who want to kill us. We're at a disadvantage because we have to respond to their actions. I'm not complaining. I signed up for it. But unless you have been there, have been shot at, have people with dirty needles conceal them and put them sharps up in their pockets hoping to stick you, called you for help with intentions of ambushing you, reached into their pocket or purse and pulled a gun etc....maybe you don't really know what you're talking about?

I'm putting my life on the line. Why don't you let me and the people with the training and experience plan how to carry out the jobs we have to do in the safest manner possible....or I guess you can continue to Monday Morning quarterback it from the safety of your computer.

So you're willing to vouch for all those that gather the intel, plan the raids and execute them all over the country, just because they "put their lives on the line"?

Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Some departments have a reputation for taking things too far, as do some individual teams. Let me ask you something, how much due diligence and raid planning time is spent on ensuring that you have verified the correct address? If you're doing it right, it would be enough so that you NEVER hit the wrong house. That doesn't always happen. How much planning and decision making are weighted towards ensuring the safety of any non-criminals in the home, such as minor children? Again, if you're doing it right, it would be enough so that the raid is cancelled and other options are considered if doing said raid would place needless risk upon those having no connection to the criminal activity. Again, that doesn't always happen.

You can complain about MMQB'ing all you want, but you chose the job. It's a job that rightly and justifiably deserves to be MMQB'd by the citizens of the communities these officers allegedly serve. That is citizen oversight of those bestowed with special powers. Without it, many LE actions would simply become lawless themselves.

Back on topic, the decision to perform a raid type warrant execution for the recovery of evidence in a financial fraud case is being questioned. Further, the specific actions in the service are being questioned. If the PD doesn't like this, well they always have the option to NOT perform the raid, do they not?

I have little doubt that those involved in the theft are dirtbags. However, this warrant service was an abject failure. It was overkill, it produced no evidence that could be entered in the case and it caused a public relations problem for the PD. That will be a problem down the road for the PD and it's officers, when their credibility is questioned.

When you're standing there with a hammer in your hand, pretty soon every problem begins to look like a nail. Don't become a hammer.

 

[uncle money bags]

http://zerogov.com/?p=3244

Interesting thoughts here...

That was an interesting read. If it had left out the part about " There are no good cops ...that the former communist countries like the Ukraine would have a police force that practices a far larger restraint in dealing with its minions than the vaunted city on a hill in North America.", it would have been more accurate though.

For example...

So you're willing to vouch for all those that gather the intel, plan the raids and execute them all over the country, just because they "put their lives on the line"?

Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Some departments have a reputation for taking things too far, as do some individual teams. Let me ask you something, how much due diligence and raid planning time is spent on ensuring that you have verified the correct address? If you're doing it right, it would be enough so that you NEVER hit the wrong house. That doesn't always happen. How much planning and decision making are weighted towards ensuring the safety of any non-criminals in the home, such as minor children? Again, if you're doing it right, it would be enough so that the raid is cancelled and other options are considered if doing said raid would place needless risk upon those having no connection to the criminal activity. Again, that doesn't always happen.

You can complain about MMQB'ing all you want, but you chose the job. It's a job that rightly and justifiably deserves to be MMQB'd by the citizens of the communities these officers allegedly serve. That is citizen oversight of those bestowed with special powers. Without it, many LE actions would simply become lawless themselves.

Back on topic, the decision to perform a raid type warrant execution for the recovery of evidence in a financial fraud case is being questioned. Further, the specific actions in the service are being questioned. If the PD doesn't like this, well they always have the option to NOT perform the raid, do they not?

I have little doubt that those involved in the theft are dirtbags. However, this warrant service was an abject failure. It was overkill, it produced no evidence that could be entered in the case and it caused a public relations problem for the PD. That will be a problem down the road for the PD and it's officers, when their credibility is questioned.

When you're standing there with a hammer in your hand, pretty soon every problem begins to look like a nail. Don't become a hammer.

 

[Lurker66]

Innocent until proven guilty, thats the assumption, thats the Law. Even when serving a warrant or searching for evidense, or sitting on a jury the assumtion of innocence is the starting point. When you get arrested or even when you get a speeding ticket, it should always be assumed you are innocent.

When I sit on a jury, thats the number one thing.

 

[RedTape]

I'm not vouching for anyone.But I'm also not willing to crucify officers based on an article when I don't have the facts. Some of you are screaming innocent until proven guilty...but you're willing to say these officers are out of line when you have no information about the circumstances of the warrant or the people inside. Isn't that guilty until innocent?

I'm not saying officers are always right. They make mistakes like anyone else. They are held accountable. I find it sad when people ignorant of a situation feel they can judge.

But I can see no matter what I say some here have made up their minds. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping you could try to view things through the eyes of an officer.