Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’

[3inSlugger]

I'm not vouching for anyone.But I'm also not willing to crucify officers based on an article when I don't have the facts. Some of you are screaming innocent until proven guilty...but you're willing to say these officers are out of line when you have no information about the circumstances of the warrant or the people inside. Isn't that guilty until innocent?

I'm not saying officers are always right. They make mistakes like anyone else. They are held accountable. I find it sad when people ignorant of a situation feel they can judge.

But I can see no matter what I say some here have made up their minds. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping you could try to view things through the eyes of an officer.

Officers being paid by taxpayers should be held to higher standards than your average citizen. They have power to kill you or at least destroy your life with fewer consequences.

 

[jsl_pt]

I'm not vouching for anyone.But I'm also not willing to crucify officers based on an article when I don't have the facts. Some of you are screaming innocent until proven guilty...but you're willing to say these officers are out of line when you have no information about the circumstances of the warrant or the people inside. Isn't that guilty until innocent? I'm not saying officers are always right. They make mistakes like anyone else. They are held accountable. I find it sad when people ignorant of a situation feel they can judge. But I can see no matter what I say some here have made up their minds. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping you could try to view things through the eyes of an officer.

Uh, there is a video in the link

 

[Beau]

I'm not vouching for anyone.But I'm also not willing to crucify officers based on an article when I don't have the facts. Some of you are screaming innocent until proven guilty...but you're willing to say these officers are out of line when you have no information about the circumstances of the warrant or the people inside. Isn't that guilty until innocent?

I'm not saying officers are always right. They make mistakes like anyone else. They are held accountable. I find it sad when people ignorant of a situation feel they can judge.

But I can see no matter what I say some here have made up their minds. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping you could try to view things through the eyes of an officer.

did you watch the video or read the article? im pretty sure it stated the circumstances. they even talked about how no one had any conviction of violent crimes previously.

 

[Lurker66]

I'm not vouching for anyone.But I'm also not willing to crucify officers based on an article when I don't have the facts. Some of you are screaming innocent until proven guilty...but you're willing to say these officers are out of line when you have no information about the circumstances of the warrant or the people inside. Isn't that guilty until innocent?

I'm not saying officers are always right. They make mistakes like anyone else. They are held accountable. I find it sad when people ignorant of a situation feel they can judge.

But I can see no matter what I say some here have made up their minds. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping you could try to view things through the eyes of an officer.

I for one, admire you and you argument. Laws protect law enforcement personnel as well. Im sure the officers and their supervisors will be represented well.

Judgeing from the video, assuming it is allowed as evidense, and working from the assumption of innocent until proven guilty. Do you think this action is justified?
Or legal?

 

[Dave70968]

This all assumes they bother with a warrant in the first place. That's not always the case:

Florida Woman Furious After SWAT Team Orders Her Out of Her Own Home During Standoff With Neighbor and What She Found When She Returned Home
Feb. 5, 2014 11:26am Elizabeth Kreft

A Jacksonville homeowner thought she may have been robbed Sunday, but realized instead her home had been altered by a SWAT team.

Deborah Franz was told to leave her home by police during a standoff with her neighbor over the weekend. According to WTEV-TV, Franz overheard loud fighting next door, and then saw SWAT team members swarm the street.

“The cop goes ‘You all need to leave, you can’t be in your house,’” Franz told the station.

The standoff lasted nearly six hours, but after the scene was cleared by law enforcement, Franz was able to return to her home and was under the impression everything was back to normal.

That’s when she was taken by surprise.

“I was the first one that came in the door and I stopped – I froze – because I realized somebody had messed with my TV,” Franz said. Her television and her game console had been moved and unplugged, her blinds were open on several windows, and blankets she had covering some walls were thrown on the floor.

After taking a quick inventory and realizing nothing was missing, Franz could only assume it was the police that had been in her house. “They were the last people I (saw) around my house,” she said.

Then she called the station to confirm her suspicions. “When he did call me back and he said ‘Yeah Ms. Franz my men did come in your house,’” said Franz.

Even worse, the mess in Franz’s house didn’t help the cops’ cause; after a near 6-hour standoff that blocked off access to most of the neighborhood, the police finally realized that the suspect had escaped the residence and and the SWAT team effort missed him completely.

Usually law enforcement officials need a warrant or permission to enter a home, but one attorney WTEV interviewed said it appears the team used Franz’s home to gain an edge on the suspect.

“It seems they only entered into the home to gain a tactical advantage. I think if there’s any violation that would probably be it,” criminal defense attorney Miguel Rosada Jr., said.

For now, Franz simply wants an explanation and an apology. “If you’re going to come in my home and use my home, at least let me know or at least try to contact me,” said Franz.

According to Rosada, it would be difficult to bring forth a case because there were no damages but he said the JSO should have at least notified her.

The tactic is similar to one used by Massachusetts authorities during the aftermath of the Boston bombing. At the time, police outfitted in tactical gear swept full neighborhoods while looking for the suspects.

The story also reflects some of the concerns over increased police militarization. On Tuesday, TheBlaze reported on a Des Moines, Iowa, family that had their doors knocked down by a local SWAT team serving a search warrant. According to the family, they would have consented to the search had the officers simply knocked.

“This is over property purchased with a stolen credit card,” the homeowner said in the Iowa case. “It doesn’t make any sense to go to such extremes for something that simple.”

Police never found the items they were looking for in the Iowa case but did make two arrests on unrelated charges.

(H/T: WTEV Jacksonville)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...or-and-what-she-found-when-she-returned-home/

 

[jrusling]

I'm not vouching for anyone.But I'm also not willing to crucify officers based on an article when I don't have the facts. Some of you are screaming innocent until proven guilty...but you're willing to say these officers are out of line when you have no information about the circumstances of the warrant or the people inside. Isn't that guilty until innocent?

I'm not saying officers are always right. They make mistakes like anyone else. They are held accountable. I find it sad when people ignorant of a situation feel they can judge.

But I can see no matter what I say some here have made up their minds. Nothing wrong with that, but I was hoping you could try to view things through the eyes of an officer.

I don't think that the officers or the departments are held accountable in quite a few situations. There is the blue line that does cover up or tries to. Just look at the case in Union City where the Chief tried to cover one of his officers. It was several years later when it was reported to the sheriffs office that things finally came to light. Thank goodness we had a sheriff that did follow the law. I realize that this may not be common, but it happens to often enough and generates a lack of trust in many cases.

 

[RedTape]

One more post before I call it quits (and yes I have read the article and watched the video).

What information did the officers have when they went on the warrant service? Were the told John Q Violent Felon is friends with the suspects and had been staying there? I don't know. I wasn't at the briefing.

I don't base my opinions on the media's article or news story. I have yet to see them get all the facts right...they don't even get all the facts! I guess I should believe everything that is printed or everything I'm told but experience tells me otherwise.

The video...how many angles are on the house? Were there officers at other doors or windows knocking and making announcements? I don't know. Do we have all the video or just some of it?

Taking down the cameras. When were they taken down? If there were still any areas of the house that had not been cleared taking them down or obstructing their view prevents a possible bad guy from seeing your movements and knowing exactly what to expect.

I can understand why someone would be upset about having their door kicked in. I would be too. But the video and article do not cover nearly all of the questions officers would ask at pre-service briefing.

I'm not defending these officers. I don't know them. Maybe they did things wrong. Maybe not. My point is that there simply are not enough facts given at this time to make that decision. It sounds like there is an investigation into this incident as we discuss it. I'll wait to see what details come from that.

I usually don't get involved in these threads. Hopefully my comments have helped show that there are a lot more things taken into consideration when going to serve a warrant than what's talked about in the article/video. I stand by my comments that, as someone who has had to deal with armed and barricaded subjects, APCs, flashbangs and tear gas are tools that save lives, both officers and suspects. Maybe those things are too "military" but if they save lives and keep people from being shot I think they are a benefit. Anyway, I hope crime does not find any of you. If so and you're in Tulsa I'd be happy to do what I can to serve you.

Oh and to the member who said this job sounds awful. Sometimes it is awful, but getting to help good people who have been hurt by criminals is so much better and makes it worth it!

Have a good one!

 

[robinray649]

Everyone thinking about not being there and the video available possibly not showing everything needs to remember that there were two others cameras available until the leos destroyed them. That one act really causes me a problem. Just like an leo would tell anyone of us on say searching your vehicle, if you have nothing to hid then you won't object to us searching. If nothing to hide then why destroy 2 cameras that could have added more understanding?

 

[Lurker66]

One more post before I call it quits (and yes I have read the article and watched the video).

What information did the officers have when they went on the warrant service? Were the told John Q Violent Felon is friends with the suspects and had been staying there? I don't know. I wasn't at the briefing.

I don't base my opinions on the media's article or news story. I have yet to see them get all the facts right...they don't even get all the facts! I guess I should believe everything that is printed or everything I'm told but experience tells me otherwise.

The video...how many angles are on the house? Were there officers at other doors or windows knocking and making announcements? I don't know. Do we have all the video or just some of it?

Taking down the cameras. When were they taken down? If there were still any areas of the house that had not been cleared taking them down or obstructing their view prevents a possible bad guy from seeing your movements and knowing exactly what to expect.

I can understand why someone would be upset about having their door kicked in. I would be too. But the video and article do not cover nearly all of the questions officers would ask at pre-service briefing.

I'm not defending these officers. I don't know them. Maybe they did things wrong. Maybe not. My point is that there simply are not enough facts given at this time to make that decision. It sounds like there is an investigation into this incident as we discuss it. I'll wait to see what details come from that.

I usually don't get involved in these threads. Hopefully my comments have helped show that there are a lot more things taken into consideration when going to serve a warrant than what's talked about in the article/video. I stand by my comments that, as someone who has had to deal with armed and barricaded subjects, APCs, flashbangs and tear gas are tools that save lives, both officers and suspects. Maybe those things are too "military" but if they save lives and keep people from being shot I think they are a benefit. Anyway, I hope crime does not find any of you. If so and you're in Tulsa I'd be happy to do what I can to serve you.

Oh and to the member who said this job sounds awful. Sometimes it is awful, but getting to help good people who have been hurt by criminals is so much better and makes it worth it!

Have a good one!

Thanks and post more. Id love to hear OSAs LEOs opinions on "militarization" of Police forces. Argue it out, pro n cons. I think itd be a fun debate if "you guys" participate.

 

[DeerAssassin]

Man, i'm more afraid of the police these days than I am of criminals...The chance of a midnight intruder being a cop executing a no-knock warrant at the wrong house and blowing my head off when I greet them with a Rem 870 is far greater than having my house invaded by a bunch of robbers. Oh well, that is the way of things I guess. It's only going to get worse from here on out as the citizens rights get taken away and our simple little police forces become para-military thugs.