The Judge

[coveyjt]

A person told me yesterday that he was told in his concealed carry class that if you use Taurus "The judge" with a .410 shell while carrying it is illegal because according to:

TITLE 21 § 1289.18

A. “Sawed-off shotgun” shall mean any firearm capable of discharging a series of projectiles of any material which
may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury, with a barrel or barrels less than eighteen (18)
inches in length, and using either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion.

So I asked a police officer I know and he confirmed you can't carry the judge with a 410 shell but you can with a 45LC. But, if you are in your house that is fine.


Thoughts?

 

[Sanford]

.410 Slugs?

Besides, isn't a .22 or any other caliber pistol or revolver loaded with shot shells "capable of discharging a series of projectiles"? Does that make them a "Sawed-off shotgun" too?

 

[Lightsluvr]

Why do I find this is hard to believe... that one of the most popular self-defense weapons is suddenly against the law? That's probably news to the folks at Taurus.

This is another example of "only in California" The Taurus Judge along with the MIL Inc Thunder-Five, Bond Arms .45LC/.410 derringers & Thompson Center Contender with .45LC/.410 barrels due meet the definition of a short-barreled shotgun under CA law; Penal Code 12001(f) and 12020(c)(1)(A)&(B). In other words, the Taurus Judge is illegal in CA due to it being classified as a short-barreled shotgun under CA law. Duuuh.

It is not a shotgun under Federal (or Oklahoma) law, because it is a revolver that just happens to shoot the .410 round. It has a rifled barrel and is designed to be fired in one hand. The statute sates: Under 26 USCA § 861 (a), firearms is defined as “"a shot gun or rifle having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length, or any other weapon, except a pistol or revolver, from which a shot is discharged by an explosive if such weapon is capable of being concealed on the person...

LL

 

[dennishoddy]

The 1" of rifling in the barrel takes it out of the shotgun definition.

 

[caojyn]

I wish they had been allowed to make the Trail Judge

but the bATF said no

 

[SMS]

If, IF, the Judge met the definition of a sawed off shotgun under 1289.18, it wouldn't matter what round you happened to have loaded in it since the definition requires the firearm to merely be capable of discharging multiple projectiles. It doesn't say it has to be loaded with rounds that fire multiple projectiles to meet the criteria.

I can see how 1289.18 could be applied to the Judge. But I would never carry a Judge for self defense unless it was the last gun available on the planet....LOL.

The 1" of rifling in the barrel takes it out of the shotgun definition.

Under the federal definition yes, but Oklahoma 1289.18 doesn't have the "smooth bore" requirement.

While 1289.18 definition seems to include the Judge and restrict it, the SDA 1290.2 definition of a pistol also includes it and allows it. So is one protected when using the Judge while carrying under the SDA but not protected when using it at home without a permit? To me it falls under the poorly written, antiquated legislation category...I doubt anyone would ever get hemmed up over it. But I can see the problem.

 

[Honeybee]

too darn big to carry around anyhow.

 

[dennishoddy]

I've done some pretty serious testing with it using the .410 shotgun rounds, (slugs, buck, and shot), then used the new rounds designed for this style of pistol.
It's night and day difference.

 

[SMS]

Maybe Dennis...just not my flavor.

I'm really curious about this 1289.18 deal though...heck, if one interpreted it strictly, any pistol is capable of firing multiple projectiles capable of causing lethal injury. Instead of capable, they should've used designed.

 

[Sanford]

Wonder if it matters how Taurus classifies it? I own a Circuit Judge, and Rossi has posted the following bulletin which I assumed was for similar legal purposes:

SERVICE BULLETIN
ROSSI CIRCUIT JUDGE RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS
WARNING
1. The Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge is sold in North America only as a rifle.
2. No smooth bore versions of the Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge are imported or sold in North America.
3. Conversion of the Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge Rifle to a Smooth Bore Shotgun is impossible because there are
no parts available in the United States.
4. Due to the complexity of the firearm any conversion from its original configuration would have to be under the
supervision of a highly competent gunsmith.
5. Any changes made to any Rossi Firearm by anyone other than BrazTech LC, voids the warranty, and may prove
to be dangerous including serious injury or death.
6. Please note that the Rossi 28 Gauge Shotgun is sold as a smooth bore shotgun only. It may be illegal to sell in
various states or jurisdictions since it is a revolving cylinder shotgun – and is not rifled as is the Rossi .45/.410
Rifle.

(source: Circuit Judge and Shotguns Owners
Warning Notice
Please Read