Challenge Accepted. We need common sense and compromise on gun violence.

[SMS]

The only answer I will give is that everything you posted is based on the assertion that we have an epidemic of gun violence in this country. That is a phony premise.

We don't have an epidemic of gun violence. We have a degredation of society, values, and decency, and we are seeing a symptom of that in a corresponding, real or perceived, increase in violence not just gun violence.

Attacking guns, and law abiding gun owners, with feel good efforts like background checks and magazine capacity limits are like taking an aspirin when you have cancer. Labelling anti-gun efforts as "common sense" and "compromise" is just a play on words to make the other side, us, look unreasonable.

Everything you have asked has been debated here ad nauseam.

 

[flatwins]

TimB, thanks for accepting the challenge put forth by JB. I don't feel like taking part in the discussion at the moment (got a damn headache) but could you start a thread and tell us more about your inherited 1911?

 

[68mustang]

First of all, let me say thank you for joining and posting your opinion in a formal and intelligent manner. Now I'll address a couple of the things you said.

Universal background checks
I am all for them, IF they are not used to "register" my firearm to me, or to alert the government about how many firearms I purchase. This is where every anti UBC person gets up in arms about imo. Also I don't like the fact that you would only be able to make purchases when stores are open that can run a background check. Some people can't buy a gun from 9-5. I've bought guns after 9pm before that I drove hours to look at and I wouldn't be able to do that with this. Plus the extra cost of the background check. Also, I think it would scare sellers away from doing business on armslist.

Regular capacity magazines that the media defines as "high capacity"
First off, when your grandfather grew up, i doubt he locked his doors at night as was the custom back then. Are you willing to leave your doors unlocked in todays world? So just because it was "good enough for him" back in the 50s, doesn't mean it applies now. We have way more violence now then we did back then. Also, Mass shootings didn't happen very much before the awb. At least not school shootings and the like. And they had fully automatic weapons. It's the mindset of the people now days and not necessarily the weapons problems. Also I can guarantee you if John Moses Browning could of had a 15 round .45 he would have. NO gun maker said, " well i think 8 is enough." it was more like, "8 is all I can fit." Could you reload in a situation where your life depended on it? Even if you could, wouldn't you rather have more bullets to shoot instead of having to reload?

They won't take your AR's and AK's away. Yea, they just make it impossible to buy them. Then they take them away cause they deem the general public incompentent to own them. Look at Australia and the UK. Look at the Mass shooting in Norway. 45 something people killed? I thought Norway had no guns?


The final point I wanna make. You think it's ok to take away "assault weapons" cause they're not the guns you enjoy. Wait till they come for your grandaddys .45 and your hunting rifles. You might be singing a different tune then.

 

[bulbboy]

Interesting that the "new" member's IP matches a current member and that the registration email is that current members screen name...

 

[Caliyanks]

You know, I served 22 years in the Army. I deployed, my son deployed 5 times and my daughter was Airborne. We didn't do it for the college money. Now when I read stuff like this all I feel is sadness. Our service and sacrifice was wasted. What gives anyone the right to tell me what I can and cannot have, what to eat, what to drink., how to talk. Have your opinion. I respect that for you. It's what we fought for, But understand that I'm not going to like it nor will we accept it. It is what it is.

 

[caojyn]

Interesting that the "new" member's IP matches a current member and that the registration email is that current members screen name...

Not gonna share wih the class?

 

[piston10]

Good posts piston and peanut, very persuasive.

I'm sorry. I forgot to be sensitive when it comes to my rights...

There is no discussion here in my opinion. I refuse to compromise and give anything. If you feel like you need to give them up you fall into the socialism group with your dictator leader. They need to enforce the laws they have, not create new ones they can't enforce and criminals still won't follow.

 

[WTJ]

Interesting points. Criminals use multiple other types of inanimate objects to commit crimes. Should all of those items be banned or their functionality reduced also?

I wager that I could find some activity that you thoroughly enjoy, propose multiple arbitrary, meaningless regulations, and then see if you would be willing to defend that activity. Golf? We should dismantle every golf course and driving range and create parks and wildlife sanctuaries. It's for the children and the environment, you see. Same with car racing, any kind of sporting venue, alcohol, drugs, and even books. We don't need these things for a productive existence. Besides, they are distractions from the REAL issues, right?

If you are a hunter, or practice any of the blood sports, your ox is the next to be gored. Besides, you have not been able to purchase a new assault weapon since 1986, thanks to Parteigenosse Hughes.

The problem in Mexico is the Mexican Government, period. If criminals, by definition, are in violation of laws, why would you think more laws are going to have ANY effect on the cartels, corrupt officials, and the consumers and distributors of the prohibited product?

I am sure someone was sharing the same sentiments in, say, 1775, 1918, 1928, 1938, 1949, and so on. I am also confident that their quality-of-life was soon diminished. Unless, of course, they belonged to The Forces of What Is Good For the Masses.

Lastly, I am not 'smart' enough to believe that I know what is best for others, but I am smart enough to understand that I am responsible for my own self-defense, regardless of the threat. Knowing that, I intend to honor that threat to the best of my ability.

If you realize that your 1911 with "7+1 in .45" is banned from private ownership in much of Latin America ("military caliber"), and that this may be the next criterion for an "assault weapon" here, will you then draw a personal line?

Or will you choose to quietly surrender your weapon, and with it, your freedom?

 

[Blue Baby]

TimB- Please answer this.
First: Why are you focusing on the tool a person uses to commit murder and not the reason the person did it? Why is the focus on firearms and not on prescription meds that may be causing mental instability? Why are we not discussing the failure of America's mental health system? All the universal background checks in the world won't catch a known mentally unstable person (Adam Lanza & James Holmes) that no one reported.
Second: In 2011 just 2.5 percent (323) of all weapon-related murders were rifles. Why are you focusing your attention on "high capacity" rifle magazines? Again, don't you think as a society our efforts should be trying to cure the illness, not ban the tool?

 

[TimB]

1. Opposition to Universal Background Checks.
How do plan on getting criminals to do this?

It wont prevent criminals from getting guns. I'm not an idiot, I understand those hell bent on evil will find the ways and means to be evil. Doesn't it make sense to make it harder for a criminal to get a gun? It's too easy to lie and buy (assuming you dont "look" like a crimanal). As someone who takes part in the classifieds here wouldn't you feel better knowing for certain you were not selling to someone who was mentally unstable? This protects the seller as much as it protects society and buyer. The other issue you fail to address is the mentally unstable person.

The bottom line is that if you oppose felons, and those already judged by a court to be mentally incapable/dangerous being allowed to buy firearms you already support UBCs. This isn't about making new gun laws JUST ENFORCING THE ONES ALREADY THERE. A lot of you compain that we dont do enough to enforce existing gun laws... Well... It's already illigal for these people to buy guns, all UBCs do is enforce that law. *stop* now re-read that and think about it.