Help me with blade steel.

[mavrick]

Hey guys I am looking for a decent fixed blade knife with a blade length around 4-5 inches. I just cant pick the steel. I am a fan of 154cm I love it on my benchmade auto and I really like the Nimvarus fixed blade they have but the Tops, Ontario, and Rat designs have caught my eye.

What do you like 440c, 1095, 5160, 154cm, s30v and why? pros and cons of each?

its gonna be a pack knife.

thanks guys.

Dustin

 

[sumoj275]

154CM in 4-5" is good. I am a lover of Bussekin steel in the 154CM, Sr101, and SR77 as well as propriety Infi. Right now the Swamp Rat (Jerry Busse's wife's company) has the Rat Man Du which is awesome 5 inch and the Rodent Solution in the smaller package can not be beat. Both blades are available at the moment at Swamp Rat Knives company stores. Take a look.
http://www.ratknives.com/

 

[Shakkazombie]

It really depends on what you want out of the blade. High carbon steels like 5160 and 1095 have great reputations for toughness and ease of resharpening and edge maintenance, but they will rust easily, so you have to oil them and so on. Steels like S30V are more stainless, which means easier maintenance in a way, and S30V specifically takes and holds a great edge, but its a ***** to resharpen it, in my opinion. The extreme example of that is D2 steel. Its a fantastic steel, which will apparently hold an edge extremely well, but is supposed to be extremely difficult to sharpen. I've heard knifemakers say that 154cm is the best all around steel.

So, if you want a camping/hard use knife, high carbon steels like 5160 and 1095 are great, due to their toughness and ease of edge maintenance, though you have to watch out for rusting. Dont get me wrong, S30V probably makes a great utility or tactical style blade, but different steels have different attributes that are best suited for certain applications.

Heat treat has a lot to do with a blade's quality, as well. Most people would probably say that 440c is an inferior steel, and would mostly be right, but I'm sure there are makers out there who can heat reat a 440c stock removal blade into a great cutting tool.

 

[cpd23]

Another steel to look at is O1. If heat treated properly it will produce a very durable blade.

 

[langston302]

I am a big big fan of D2 steel in the big knives. All the tool steel blades are great for big blades.

 

[Sanjuro82]

My favorites would probably be Japanese VG-10 and s30v.

 

[Sanjuro82]

For the price Kershaw's (Sandvik) 13c26 is a really great steel.

 

[patrickcudd]

INFI for the win!!!!!!

 

[Shakkazombie]

INFI is great, but it's too expensive IMO. ESEE knives have a great reputation for camping/hard use blades. I've got a fixed blade in O1 that's awesome, easy to sharpen, holds an edge well, etc. Great middle of the road steel.

 

[ez bake]

Hey guys I am looking for a decent fixed blade knife with a blade length around 4-5 inches. I just cant pick the steel. I am a fan of 154cm I love it on my benchmade auto and I really like the Nimvarus fixed blade they have but the Tops, Ontario, and Rat designs have caught my eye.

What do you like 440c, 1095, 5160, 154cm, s30v and why? pros and cons of each?

its gonna be a pack knife.

thanks guys.

Dustin

I've not been around or posting much here for a while, but I figured what the heck - I'd chime in about 25 days late for the OP

If its a pack knife, then you honestly shouldn't worry too much about the steel - there are other things to consider. Presuming you haven't already bought a knife yet, you should ask yourself a few questions:

How good am I at sharpening a knife? - Both at home with a comfy setup of whatever sharpening system and in the field with my pack and only a stone or two and possibly a strop.

What conditions are you going to be using this knife in? - Rainy season, regular camping, Bug-out/emergency-only, in minimalist / lightweight backpacking situations, etc... It makes a difference in how thick of a spine you need (or don't - TOPS knives are notorious for being super thick and rugged, but good luck slicing something intricate with many of their models).

What ergonomics and handle-material do I prefer/need? - I find that the ergos make a big difference in the knives I buy, and the knives I actually use. Handle-material is a big part of that and I've become very picky about what I use regularly.

As to steels - if you're worried about edge-retention, there's more to it than a Rockwell rating and abuse-tests. Sharpening ability is also important, but with diamond stones and some practice, you can easily use super-steels and sharpen them with not too much effort.


Super Steels
If you're looking for the toughest steel you can get in a knife, then Crucible Tool Steel's Particle Metallurgy steels are probably the way to go. CPM is a different process where the metal is heated to molten, then "sprayed" in a mist and cooled in fine particles and then heated/pressed into bar-stock (giving it molecular superiority, almost no graininess, and very even element mixture).

CPM M4 and CPM S90V are two of the toughest steels used in knife-making today. You can profile the edge way back to a very acute angle and it will hold its edge. CPM D2 is superior to standard Bar-stock D2, but I really like both steels for their edge-retention and stain-resistance.

ZDP-189 is another super-steel with uber-hardness and ultra-edge retention. Its a bit toothy though where as S90V and M4 can both be polished to a very fine edge (toothy isn't necessarily bad).

Carpenter Tool steel makes a few seriously hard tool steels and so does Latrobe (their DuraTech 20CV is what Rick Hinderer uses in his uber-high-end custom knives). Carpenter's CTS-XHP is in a Spyderco Manix 2 that I should be getting in the mail in the next few days - its supposed to be high-performance edge-retention with nice corrosion resistance.

INFI is another of these, but I believe Roger Busse owns the patent, so only the Bussekin will have this steel. I'm a huge fan of the Game-Warden and the SAR-4 - both of which are kind of expensive, but lend themselves to hard-use with almost no edge-damage (no chipping, no breaks/cracks, and very little edge rolling under some of the harshest use ever recorded in knife tests). Its not terrible to sharpen either (its different, but not too difficult once you get used to it).


Tool Steels
When you get down to your normal-use tool steels that are more common and cheaper in price, you start to see things like CPM-S30V, 154CM, VG-10, etc... S30V is a good "working edge" knife where you can sharpen it to shaving sharp relatively easily, but it will loose its shaving-edge quickly but remain working-hard (where you can slice-cut paper roughly, but not push-cut it cleanly). VG-10 is toothy, and holds its edge for a very long time considering its cost. 154CM is good depending on how its heat-treated (the same could be said for S30V - there are softer and harder variants out there).

Edited to add: Oh yeah, I almost forgot about ATS-34, an air-hardened steel that doesn't quite have the wear-resistance of S30V, but can be hardened to a nice Rockwell rating and is very tough.


High-Carbon Cro-Van steels
Then you get into your high-carbon budget/value steels. 1095 is one of my favorites, but a lot of companies who make knives in this steel charge more than I personally feel that they're worth. You can sharpen these steels on darn near anything (there are videos where folks have found common stones on the ground and sharpened a 1095 blade into an extremely sharp edge). I love these for hard-use outdoor stuff because they are cheaper (and you can loose or seriously damage a knife in the woods), and they are easy to sharpen - but hold their edge long enough for most of what I have to do with them in the woods.

Don't buy into the hype that you need a great big super-thick blade to baton with in your camping/hiking knife. I've never had the absolute need to baton wood - ever and I've been on a lot of hiking/backpacking trips (that's not to say no one has to ever, but unless you're in wet conditions and wood is extremely scarce, I just can't see the need for it).




ESEE and Becker both make reasonably-priced 1095 knives that are functional and not trying to be uber-tactical or fancier than they need to be. For what you're asking, I'd check out the ESEE 4 (4.5" - the ESEE 5 is 1/4" at the spine, so its too thick for fine cutting and I dislike that), or the Ka Bar Becker Companion (5.25").

I personally don't care too much for Ontario (even though they still make an RC3/4 in D2 tool steel which I love) because of them suing RAT Cutlery when RAT wanted to end their contract with Ontario. It was a BS lawsuit that ended up in RAT Cutlery changing their name to ESEE and letting go of the naming convention that they had come up with for the RC and RTAC knives.

BTW, if you want corrosion resistance with some pretty good toughness and edge retention, look at Spyderco's Salt series and their H1 steel - its tough enough and extremely rust-resistant (even salty humid area corrosion resistant).