Learning from Zimmerman's Mistakes.

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R. Johnson

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The recent Zimmerman case brings to mind a lot of issues we face as a society. Now personally, I feel like we should never have even heard about it. It should never have come to trial, it never should have been on national news, and we should have only heard about it in the NRA's "Armed Citizen." Regardless, there are a great many issues brought up by the trial that we can learn from.

One of these issues is our responsibility for our own safety. Now as we are all familiar, the law in Florida and Oklahoma says that as long as we are in a place that we have a legal right to be, we have the right to utilize deadly force to defend ourselves if we reasonably fear for life or limb. You've probably guessed by now that what I am getting around to is just because you have a legal right to be somewhere doesn't mean that it is wise to be there. I believe the prevailing consensus is that it was not wise of Mr. Zimmerman to exit his vehicle, despite having the legal right to do so.

It is this argument that I have heard from many people why he should have been convicted. As mind blowing as that is, I've hear a number of people say, "Well, it was very stupid of him to get out of his vehicle and follow Martin, so he had no right to defend himself when Martin attacked him, so he should be found guilty."

In my mind, that's like saying when a drunk woman in provocative clothing is walking down the street after midnight and is raped, it's her fault because of what she was wearing. I realize that's a potentially controversial statement, but it is the truth. A victim of an assault, who's in a place they have a legal right to be, is never at fault. However, that does not mean we aren't responsible for our own safety.

In the case of the woman above, it is not her fault a criminal attacked her. However, she could have mitigated the risk by traveling with friends, planning safe reliable transportation, and bringing a companion that will remain sober. In the case of Mr. Zimmerman, using a little bit of common sense would have resulted in a much different outcome. As the witnesses testified, Mr. Zimmerman was a wimp and wasn't going to be winning a fist fight with anyone. Not to mention he had no idea what kind of weapons Martin might have been carrying. Getting out of his vehicle that night he could just as easily have ended up dead himself.

Reiterating my points, we are responsible for ourselves. No one is more interested in your safety than you are. Avoiding dangerous situations, regardless of your right to be there, should be common sense. However, not using common sense, putting yourself in a dangerous situation does not make it your fault if you are attacked, nor does it mean you've forfeited your right to self defense.
 

otis147

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how far do you follow somebody before it becomes stalking?

sure, he fired in self defense, after he got put on the ground by somebody he should have left alone to begin with.
 

caojyn

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Can't wait to scare the hell out of some kids. Tell them the legend of the ZimmerMan. If you're out breaking curfew, the ZimmerMan is gonna get ya. He'll try and trick you with his false authority, lure you into his Most Dangerous Game. Lock your doors and bar your windows, the night belongs to the ZimmerMan.
 

mugsy

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how far do you follow somebody before it becomes stalking?

sure, he fired in self defense, after he got put on the ground by somebody he should have left alone to begin with.

Not sure I follow your logic here - Zimmerman followed Martin (reasons irrelevant right now), Martin noticed him, didn't like it and attacked Zimmerman - who whatever else he had done to that point had not made any threatening gestures against Martin - now as the two struggle (Zimmerman's fears confirmed in his mind and Martin feeling justified in attacking) Zimmerman starts to really fear that his life may be in danger and shoots = Zimmerman is a rapist (combining the remarks from your two posts)? Sorry, that doesn't add up.

Zimmerman might have alarmed Martin but he did not assault him prior to being attacked by Martin - that is the relevant part you seem to have missed. Martin had a right to be concerned, call the police himself, evade Zimmerman, etc. but not to double back and decide to beat up someone he saw following him. Had Zimmerman assaulted Martin first a very different answer would apply.
 

otis147

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Not sure I follow your logic here - Zimmerman followed Martin (reasons irrelevant right now), Martin noticed him, didn't like it and attacked Zimmerman - who whatever else he had done to that point had not made any threatening gestures against Martin - now as the two struggle (Zimmerman's fears confirmed in his mind and Martin feeling justified in attacking) Zimmerman starts to really fear that his life may be in danger and shoots = Zimmerman is a rapist (combining the remarks from your two posts)? Sorry, that doesn't add up.

Zimmerman might have alarmed Martin but he did not assault him prior to being attacked by Martin - that is the relevant part you seem to have missed. Martin had a right to be concerned, call the police himself, evade Zimmerman, etc. but not to double back and decide to beat up someone he saw following him. Had Zimmerman assaulted Martin first a very different answer would apply.

the o.p. introduced the rape analogy, calling zimmerman the rape victim... rapists tend to stalk their victims, not the other way around...
 

chuter

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Knowing myself as I do, I don't think I would have approached Martin. I had an example occur a few months ago in our area.
A man was walking and acting eratic near our house, I thought possibly drunk or mentally disturbed. I called the local police and asked that they check him out.
I guess some people would have approached him and checked him out for themselves, but I didn't.

I don't think it would have been wrong for me to approach him, just not my nature.
 

n2sooners

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the o.p. introduced the rape analogy, calling zimmerman the rape victim... rapists tend to stalk their victims, not the other way around...

And it was Martin doing the stalking after Zimmerman lost sight of him. It was Martin who approached and attacked Zimmerman.
 

nofearfactor

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People need to learn to take a beating like they did back in the old days. Too quick to pull the triggers seems like these days thinking their lives are 'in danger'. How do you assess quickly while in the heat of the moment if your life is in danger enough to shoot? For me its pretty simple, I have to have been attacked with a knife or have a gun pulled on me. Someone jumping on me to beat me is just going to get a beating right back if I can get up. Im not bragging, I dont have to. I put in the time training, many many years, so it is literally what I would plan to do unless of course I was knocked unconscious. But as far as I can tell Martin seemed to be at a size disadvantage, he just had the jump on the guy in his favor. Its all hindsight though now anyways and no one will ever know how it could have gone down if there wasnt a gun involved. Sad shite all around for everybody involved. I hope we all can learn something from this tragedy.
 

n2sooners

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People need to learn to take a beating like they did back in the old days. Too quick to pull the triggers seems like these days thinking their lives are 'in danger'. How do you assess quickly while in the heat of the moment if your life is in danger enough to shoot? For me its pretty simple, I have to have been attacked with a knife or have a gun pulled on me. Someone jumping on me to beat me is just going to get a beating right back if I can get up. Im not bragging, I dont have to. I put in the time training, many many years, so it is literally what I would plan to do unless of course I was knocked unconscious. But as far as I can tell Martin seemed to be at a size disadvantage, he just had the jump on the guy in his favor. Its all hindsight though now anyways and no one will ever know how it could have gone down if there wasnt a gun involved. Sad shite all around for everybody involved. I hope we all can learn something from this tragedy.

Actually, from the research I've done (you would think it would have all been in the police report) Martin and Zimmerman were within about ten pounds of each other in weight and Martin had 3-6 inches on Zimmerman. The weight the media commonly reports on Zimmerman came from his arrest more than half a decade ago. He had lost quite a bit of weight since then. The weight I have seen frequently reported for Martin came from his 2008/09 football season and he had grown since then.
 

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