Learning from Zimmerman's Mistakes.

[R. Johnson]

Now I must state that I'm not out to debate the case, whether or not he's actually guilty, etc. I just want to discuss what we can learn from the situation as the jury accepted it. I hope that I never have to discharge my weapon in self defense, but there could come a point when I am forced to do so. However, analyzing situations like this can help me reduce the likelyhood of having to do so.

 

[excat]

There are several things I take away from this, and none of it is about race.

Based on the facts of the case presented, I saw 2 key poor decisions, and 1 each of them made. GZ getting out of the car, which he could have sat in the car and reported to 911 while in there (though he didn't have to, he had the right to get out of his car and do what he did), and TM would have made his way home and all would have been over with. The second TM "beating" GZ. It's fine to confront someone (TM had the right to confront GZ), but why not just do it with words and be on your way, than risk your life? It's one thing to give someone a little beat down, it's another to bash their head into the sidewalk. I saw the pics of GZ's head, and yeah, I wouldn't have taken that very long before I did the same, and a serious brain trauma is always possible. If either of those 2 event changed, it would have been a likely different outcome, but it sucks for both the events lead to where they did.

1) You have to make educated decisions for yourself based on the situation. You can't always avoid bad situations though, and keeping your head and emotions in check in those situations is key.

2)911 on speed dial so the situation is recorded and reported direct from the scene, the entire time, through your own words at that moment, and as much of the altercation as possible

3)Use your words, run, whatever you gotta do before you use your weapon. (Since no one "definitely" knows the context of the confrontation between the 2, it leaves one to think maybe some smooth talking from GZ could have altered it situation, but no one will ever know if that was possible) I know you don't have to run legally, but hell, if I could run and save myself (and potentially my life) the 1+ year of accusations, trials, etc, I'd sure as hell do it.

I give GZ props for waiting so long to draw his weapon, I heard them say he took a beating for something like 48 seconds before he drew. If witness accounts were as they said it was, that's a long time to take a one sided pummel. I don't envy the decision or the situation, but there are definitely ways the end result could have been different, for both TM and GZ.

 

[pritch]

Very well thought out and presented, RJ. I think your rape analogy is particularly insightful and will be borrowing it shamelessly!

What follows is not directed at you.

I have been less inclined to condenm Zimmerman for getting out of his car than many, and have bristled at the idea that it is somehow well accepted doctrine that one does not do so. "Leaving it to the professionals" is a large part of the capitulation that we as a society have bought into, ceding our public spaces and even our own properties to predators out of fear of confrontation. This has been going on long enough to have gained a patina of appropriateness, and standing up is portrayed as vigilantism or instigating. Heck, at this point a good old "Get off my lawn!" is a being portrayed as a hate crime.

Whatever happened to "All that it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing"? We used to cringe at stories of New Yorkers witnessing crimes and not aiding the victims, smug in our belief of "If I'd been there, I would have done something!" Most Neighborhood watch activity that I am familiar with takes place on foot, not in a vehicle. I'm not willing to cede that Zimmerman's actions were in any way a justification for the attack that apparently was initiated by Martin. The popularity, even among self-defense minded gun guys on this forum and others, to quickly brand Zimmerman a fool, Barney Fife, dumba$$ or what have you is particularly troubling to me. Can't you guys see that THAT COULD BE YOU?! It is always easy to Monday morning quarterback. I hope none of you find yourselves blistering under such an all-out assault from the media and government (all the way up to the President and his Justice Department) only to have your "peeps" so quick to throw you under the bus.

It appears Zimmerman was on his way elsewhere when he observed Martin. He thought Martin looked suspicious, and in light of prior recent incidents, chose to keep an eye on him. He wasn't "Out keeping the world safe for good, God fearing white folks!" He didn't go Rambo. He called the PD and attempted to keep eyes on. Perhaps it wasn't the best choice to follow Martin off the main road without backup, but he may have thought the police were nearly there.

What exactly is wrong with Zimmerman following Martin? There is no evidence that he engaged him, but what if he did? "Hi I'm George. You look like you may be lost. Can I help you?" Or "I'm with the neighborhood watch. I don't believe I've seen you before. Do you live here in the community?" Are these action so out of line as to suggest Zimmerman was some wild vigilante looking to gun somebody down? Do you all really believe that the proper course of action is to cower in a corner and wait for the nice big policeman to come save the day?

My wife and I are in the middle of a move from Seattle to Norman. We are leaving a townhouse in a gated community much like the one in this incident. My back was killing me from lifting boxes so I crashed on the recliner in the front room. At around 1am, a couple young black males started calling out to one another loudly, making stupid posturing threats to oneanother and generally goofing off. It was a very hot night by Seattle standards, and everybody had their windows open, many of which face the street where these shennanigans were going on. Nobody said anything. Nobody did anything. I finally went outside and yelled at them to quiet down, and they immediately went from aggressive tuff guys to kids who had been called on their foolishness. ("What the hell are you doing!? Do you know how late it is?") No big confrontation ensued. They apologized and said they didn't realize how loud they were, and that they were heading home. I went inside to deal with the fact that I had just become my dad. . .

My point is, when we fail to engage dipshittery we embolden it. That is why we now have public parks that have become permenant homeless encampments. [/rant]

 

[otis147]

so walking down the street is reason enough to be followed. if you're walking sown the street, and somebody's trailing you, do you ignore him, or confront? what should trayvon have done? run? hide? confront his aggressor?
its a ****** situation, started by zimmerman, and ended by zimmerman.

again, the lesson is leave people alone. don't tread on anyone. both could have handled the situation better, sure. but there wouldn't have been a situation if george had stayed in his car.

 

[piston10]

People need to learn to take a beating like they did back in the old days. Too quick to pull the triggers seems like these days thinking their lives are 'in danger'. How do you assess quickly while in the heat of the moment if your life is in danger enough to shoot? For me its pretty simple, I have to have been attacked with a knife or have a gun pulled on me. Someone jumping on me to beat me is just going to get a beating right back if I can get up. Im not bragging, I dont have to. I put in the time training, many many years, so it is literally what I would plan to do unless of course I was knocked unconscious. But as far as I can tell Martin seemed to be at a size disadvantage, he just had the jump on the guy in his favor. Its all hindsight though now anyways and no one will ever know how it could have gone down if there wasnt a gun involved. Sad shite all around for everybody involved. I hope we all can learn something from this tragedy.

This is ******** stupid. The olden days you had a fist fight and went on. Those days are gone. If he were still here you could ask officer Chad Peery about what these thugs can do.

What I learned is, if someone is following me, I'm not going to jump him and start pounding his face and smash his head on the ground. Especially if I have already lost him and could just continue on my way home. I could get justifiably shot if I attack him.

 

[SoonerStatePawn]

Zimmerman said that Martin was on top of him bashing his head on the concrete and punching him. Zimmerman was yelling for help. He said that Martin saw his pistol and said you're going to die tonight, as Martin reached for the pistol Zimmerman went for it and shot him in the chest. Zimmerman said that Martin said "You got me".

It had nothing to do with Zimmerman not taking a beating like a man, his words said that Martin threatened him and was going for his gun. If that were the case I would have done the same thing.

The media has turned this entire case into a circus.

 

[piston10]

Zimmerman said that Martin was on top of him bashing his head on the concrete and punching him. Zimmerman was yelling for help. He said that Martin saw his pistol and said you're going to die tonight, as Martin reached for the pistol Zimmerman went for it and shot him in the chest. Zimmerman said that Martin said "You got me".

It had nothing to do with Zimmerman not taking a beating like a man, his words said that Martin threatened him and was going for his gun. If that were the case I would have done the same thing.

The media has turned this entire case into a circus.

Shhhh don't ruin it for the people that did not follow the case and only watched the media biased crap.

 

[dennishoddy]

seems martin would fit the role of a rape victim in this case better than mr. zimmerman...

lesson: don't tread on anybody.

Give it up man.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum

 

[otis147]

Give it up man.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum

so the one being followed to begin with is the rapist? that seems dumber to me.

 

[n2sooners]

so walking down the street is reason enough to be followed.

Yes, being a stranger walking down the street in the rain looking in windows and acting like you are on drugs (which he quite possibly was) in a gated community which had been putting up with a rash of crimes is enough to get you followed.