Only YOU Can Protect Net Neutrality

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Mike_60

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….yes data traffic has ramped up but technologies has ramped up accordingly .. multiplexing technologies makes it possible for exponential increases in amount of data being carried on the finite number of optic fibers.

ISP customers are already being charged for set performance standards rated in MB/Sec .. yet throttling most costs are getting to roll down to ISP customers yet again. those charges extorted from content providers will be passed on the consumers.

this is why the FCC should reclassify ISP as title 2 common carriers .. this would force ISP to allow equal access to everyone.

The crux of your argument is that “multiplexing technologies makes it possible for exponential increases in amount of data being carried on the finite number of optic fibers.” Ergo, you come to the conclusion that ISP’s make plenty of money and should be forced to build out their networks to suit your vision of what it should be. Do you even know what “multiplexing technologies” are? Do you have any understanding of where the networks are headed? Because, it seems apparent to me, that you don’t. If the FCC reclassifies the non-regulated network as regulated it will be like throwing a pitcher of ice water on it. The rules for the regulated business are draconian in nature and unfair for the incumbents. That is the reason most all of the baby Bells nearly went belly up within a few years after divestiture causing service and innovation to suffer.

The last part of your argument is the silliest. You say, “those charges extorted from content providers will be passed on the consumers.” Seriously, do you really think it is all free just growing on some bandwidth tree out there somewhere? Someone is going to pay for it. But, the way you’re proposing it is that everyone pays. That in effect grants special status to those content providers that burn it the most, or possibly, just maybe, you can just “extort” the costs from the ISP’s.

Last time I called Cox to cancel my landline or TV service but keep my internet they begged and offered discounts to keep me subscribing to their service.

Like I said, I don’t know much about cable but I do know telco. I can tell you without a doubt that the large telcos want you off of the traditional network.

…. facts are bandwidth costs in terms of volume has gone down due to in changes in technologies allowing more and more traffic on the same fibers and/or lines.

so what ISP has to pay to upgrade to take advantage of newer multiplexing technologies (MUX) with new equipment. afterwards bandwidth will drop yet again as traffic allowed scales yet again from the same fiber and/or copper wires.

compare what YOU are paying for communication today vs 10 years ago ... your horsesh*t don't fly ... costs has gone up .. waaaay up!

by the way there's already bandwidth caps in place for heavy users .. so that doesn't fly .. everyone including low volume users are getting throttled purely because ISP wants to squeeze the max profits possible. this why FCC should classify ISP as common carriers so ALL traffic would get equal access by law for the broadband access consumers are already paying for.

There are limits as to what various facilities such as copper can accommodate and even some of the older fiber too. Those limits are/have/or are about to be reached. It all depends on your location and the services you’re requesting. The use of pair bonding in copper, and other tricks like that, can help prolong the inevitable a little while. But in the not too distant future it’ll stop being used all together.
Comparing now versus ten years ago is ridiculous. I (and you too) use vast amounts of data and services that we didn’t use then or even have available ten years ago. So yes costs go up. But don’t forget the other expenses like inflation, labor costs, regulation, ext., ext... Do you seriously expect to have all the goodies you have today and pay what you did ten years ago?
I guess we should just all adopt “Net Neutrality” as the new mantra for social equality the way “Hope and Change” was a few years ago.
 

Hobbes

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I watch that internet data usage monitor every month.
Most months I don't even use half of it up.

And now I am supposed to pay Hulu and Netflix an extra $5 a month so they can pay my cable company when I haven't even exceeded the limits in my cable agreement?

As MauserMike used to say, I was born at night but it weren't last night.
 

Mike_60

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I watch that internet data usage monitor every month.
Most months I don't even use half of it up.

And now I am supposed to pay Hulu and Netflix an extra $5 a month so they can pay my cable company when I haven't even exceeded the limits in my cable agreement?

As MauserMike used to say, I was born at night but it weren't last night.

There are a lot of companies involved in getting that stream to you besides just your cable company (Cox?). If you don't use the data you're paying for then lower your plan and save yourself some money.
 

Hobbes

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There are a lot of companies involved in getting that stream to you besides just your cable company (Cox?). If you don't use the data you're paying for then lower your plan and save yourself some money.
When you drop down to the next lower plan the Up/Down speed drops too and then you don't have enough bandwidth to stream HD movies reliably.
The Cox info page says that plan is for casual internet surfers and email.

I picked the plan that my cable company recommends for people who want to stream movies.
From their webpage:
What could you do in a month with the 250GB of data that Cox's Preferred Tier delivers? You could watch 35 2-hour movies in High Definition, 80 half-hour standard-definition TV shows and 400 3-minute videos; surf the web for 400 hours and listen to 9,000 4-minute songs. Very few customers - roughly 2-5% - exceed their data plans in a given month.
That's what I bought. That's what I'm paying for each month.
 

_CY_

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The crux of your argument is that “multiplexing technologies makes it possible for exponential increases in amount of data being carried on the finite number of optic fibers.” Ergo, you come to the conclusion that ISP’s make plenty of money and should be forced to build out their networks to suit your vision of what it should be. Do you even know what “multiplexing technologies” are? Do you have any understanding of where the networks are headed? Because, it seems apparent to me, that you don’t. If the FCC reclassifies the non-regulated network as regulated it will be like throwing a pitcher of ice water on it. The rules for the regulated business are draconian in nature and unfair for the incumbents. That is the reason most all of the baby Bells nearly went belly up within a few years after divestiture causing service and innovation to suffer.

The last part of your argument is the silliest. You say, “those charges extorted from content providers will be passed on the consumers.” Seriously, do you really think it is all free just growing on some bandwidth tree out there somewhere? Someone is going to pay for it. But, the way you’re proposing it is that everyone pays. That in effect grants special status to those content providers that burn it the most, or possibly, just maybe, you can just “extort” the costs from the ISP’s.



Like I said, I don’t know much about cable but I do know telco. I can tell you without a doubt that the large telcos want you off of the traditional network.



There are limits as to what various facilities such as copper can accommodate and even some of the older fiber too. Those limits are/have/or are about to be reached. It all depends on your location and the services you’re requesting. The use of pair bonding in copper, and other tricks like that, can help prolong the inevitable a little while. But in the not too distant future it’ll stop being used all together.
Comparing now versus ten years ago is ridiculous. I (and you too) use vast amounts of data and services that we didn’t use then or even have available ten years ago. So yes costs go up. But don’t forget the other expenses like inflation, labor costs, regulation, ext., ext... Do you seriously expect to have all the goodies you have today and pay what you did ten years ago?
I guess we should just all adopt “Net Neutrality” as the new mantra for social equality the way “Hope and Change” was a few years ago.

looks like it's you that don't know squat ... it's amazing how some network folks are on their high horse .. well it's not been that long ago network folks were low man on the totem pole. how things have changed ...

fiber is no where near full capacities that it can carry .. with no telling what new technologies coming down the pike increasing capacities yet again. fact is there are excess network capacities right now .. so what telco's and/or ISP or who ever that needs huge amounts of bandwidth needs to make major capital investments to keep up with their demands. their end customers are paying for their infrastructure costs and make a profit ... or they would go out of business. last time I heard .. Telco's and major ISP like comcast and twc are make record profits.

bottom line is all the $$billions spent on capital investments are lowering bandwidth costs while increasing numbers of customers supported. your putting out the begging bowl for major telco's and ISP will NOT work.

bottom line is customers pays for broadband each month ... they should get the performance they paid for without ISP throttling their content. there is NO reason streaming video should be capped at 30kb/sec to 40kb/sec when the customer has paid for multiple MB/Sec speeds. decent quality video can be delivered for about 100kb/sec rates.. which is a far cry from the slowest 1.5mb/sec speeds.

the FCC should grow a backbone and change ISP's to title 2 common carriers ... then by law all parties will be guaranteed equal access to the broadband you have already PAID for. the world has changed .. internet has become everyday communication for most folks.

OSA forum is a perfect example of above ...
 

Mike_60

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looks like it's you that don't know squat ... it's amazing how some network folks are on their high horse .. well it's not been that long ago network folks were low man on the totem pole. how things have changed ...

Well, let’s keep that quiet, because I’ve been making a pretty decent living for a very long time working in this field. Frankly, I’ve never seen any network guys that were considered bottom rung employees unless they were worthless, and then they were usually unemployed.

fiber is no where near full capacities that it can carry .. with no telling what new technologies coming down the pike increasing capacities yet again. fact is there are excess network capacities right now .. so what telco's and/or ISP or who ever that needs huge amounts of bandwidth needs to make major capital investments to keep up with their demands. their end customers are paying for their infrastructure costs and make a profit ... or they would go out of business. last time I heard .. Telco's and major ISP like comcast and twc are make record profits. ...

Theoretically, that is correct, by using DWDM technology there is no upper limit to what a fiber can carry. But the thing you always seem to forget to include in your argument is all of the equipment (minus the fiber) that is between the content provider and the end customer. Just because the fiber is capable of magic it doesn’t mean everything else is also. All you want to talk about is “multiplexers and fiber” like that is some magic potion. Multiplexing data is an old technology that has been around forever and is actually being replaced. Question of the day for you: replaced by what?

Bottom line is: if the ISP’s aren’t able to upgrade fast enough to suit you…then to bad.

bottom line is all the $$billions spent on capital investments are lowering bandwidth costs while increasing numbers of customers supported. your putting out the begging bowl for major telco's and ISP will NOT work. ...

True…sort of… the cost per Gig is dropping but the demand in data growth is out stripping it.

bottom line is customers pays for broadband each month ... they should get the performance they paid for without ISP throttling their content. there is NO reason streaming video should be capped at 30kb/sec to 40kb/sec when the customer has paid for multiple MB/Sec speeds. decent quality video can be delivered for about 100kb/sec rates.. which is a far cry from the slowest 1.5mb/sec speeds. ...

If you don’t like your ISP vote with your money and go somewhere else.

the FCC should grow a backbone and change ISP's to title 2 common carriers ... then by law all parties will be guaranteed equal access to the broadband you have already PAID for. the world has changed .. internet has become everyday communication for most folks. ...

If you had any clue as to how bad an idea that is you would be shocked.
 

Mike_60

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When you drop down to the next lower plan the Up/Down speed drops too and then you don't have enough bandwidth to stream HD movies reliably.
The Cox info page says that plan is for casual internet surfers and email.

I picked the plan that my cable company recommends for people who want to stream movies.
From their webpage:

That's what I bought. That's what I'm paying for each month.

Sounds like your problem is with the Cox pricing structure.
 

Hobbes

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