What 9mm SD ammo are you Glock-people carrying?

[twoguns?]

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm
Havent heard that , but I found this.
There was a thread somewhere that showed some problems with the CD ammo....cant find it right now.
Maybe one of the google-foo's will chime in.
Sorry to de-rail your thread

 

[David2012]

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm
Havent heard that , but I found this.
There was a thread somewhere that showed some problems with the CD ammo....cant find it right now.
Maybe one of the google-foo's will chime in.
Sorry to de-rail your thread

Hornady had some problems with hard primers [the silver / Nichol colored ones] early on when CD first came out.. but that has been corrected with the Brass colored primers. I've fired a number of them through my Glocks & Ruger LCP.. they went bang every single time with deep impressions dead center in the primer.

In one personal unscientific test, I took a 5 gallon bucket and filled it with wet clean sand.. with the consistancy of wall spackling.. I got 12" deep penetration and a impressive wound cavity 5-6" in diameter starting about 2" in and extending 7". Much like Humpty Dumpty.. no doctor would have put someone back together after a wound like that.

 

[Popjim]

147gr Gold Dot

 

[twoguns?]

Hornady had some problems with hard primers [the silver / Nichol colored ones] early on when CD first came out.. but that has been corrected with the Brass colored primers. I've fired a number of them through my Glocks & Ruger LCP.. they went bang every single time with deep impressions dead center in the primer.

Thanks, that was what I was thinking of.

 

[AKguy1985]

When i had my S&W 6906 i was using the PDX-1

 

[jmoney]

I have speer gold dots at the moment, but whenever I get a chance i will go on gunbroker and buy Winchester Ranger, T Series +P 124 (or 127gr) LE ammo. It always does the best in water jug tests

 

[David2012]

JMoney... just in case you didn't know....the Winchester Ranger T-series... the PDX-1 ...and the SXT rounds ['same eXact thing'] are variants of the old Winchester Black Talon rounds.. minus the black coating that helped give them such a bad [or good- depending on your outlook] reputation. The thicker jacket at the nose versus at the base causes the petals to remain more flared and jagged... instead of folding back against the base.

Many mistakingly thought the black coating was Teflon, but it was not.. it was just how the lubricant oxidized the copper jacket making it look black... just like on the new AR-22 rounds by Winchester. I believe that under the original Oklahoma SDA, Black Talons were outlawed because of them being falsely perceived as having the Teflon or fluorocarbon coating making them able to go through body armour.. but that was a incorrect perception.

 

[jmoney]

yes, I know
I never got to see how the black talons performed, but man these things are pretty wicked looking coming out of the water tank.

here is a link to a ton of photos on ammo expansion tests

http://mail.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85273

lots of good information there

edit: are you saying that the newer form is consider black talon as well and saying that it is covered by the ban?

if so thanks for the heads up, I haven't ordered any yet

 

[David2012]

yes, I know
http://mail.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85273
edit: are you saying that the newer form is consider black talon as well and saying that it is covered by the ban?

if so thanks for the heads up, I haven't ordered any yet

No, not at all... Just the opposite!!!!!! You are good to go! Not only are the current rounds fully acceptable to use.. the old Black Talons are ok to use too... they don't have any teflon or flourocarbon coating .. which was what supposedly had outlawed them originally.... nor are they steel cored.

I'd guess in the Black Talon's case... what cuts through some body armor is the jagged petals.. they cut like knives or scissors.. ballistic vests don't normally protect against knives or pointed weapons.. but that isn't a violation of the restricted bullet law.

§21-1289.19.

As used in Sections 1289.20 through 1289.22 of this title and Section
2 of this act:

1. "Restricted bullet" means a round or elongated missile with a core
of less than sixty percent (60%) lead and having a fluorocarbon
coating, which is designed to travel at a high velocity and is capable
of penetrating body armor; and

2. "Body armor" means a vest or shirt of ten (10) plies or more of
bullet resistant material as defined by the Office of Development,
Testing and Dissemination, a division of the United States Department
of Justice.

The old Black Talons did not meet this criteria.. Winchester pulled them off the market due to bad press / publicity... not because they were illegal.

Per Wikipedia-- The bullet included a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process.....The black appearance was due to the oxidized copper jacket. This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. This coating is still widely used on many of Winchester's rifle bullets today.

From the Winchester web site--

Lubalox Coating:

◦Black oxide
◦First used in early 1990
◦Does not increase diameter of bullet
◦Used on Accubond CT®, Ballistic Silvertip®, E-tip and XP3® product lines
◦Does not harm barrel
◦Reduces barrel fouling
◦Does not require barrel "seasoning"

 

[jmoney]

that is interesting language "is capable of penetrating body armor"

I feel like it implies that body armor stops all bullets except for "special ones" which from my understanding is not the case. I have tomorrow off so might spend a little time digging around to see if I can find the test results for modern defensive rounds against body armor. If memory serves, 9mm made it through several types.