There are numerous photos of JPII on his visit to New Guinea in 1983 with bare-breasted women in front of him. Even if that is acceptable behavior for their culture, it should not have been acceptable for the head of the Catholic Church to allow such dress (or lack thereof) in front of him. Yet in the world of the post-Vatican II church, anything goes.
So in response to wanting to see the likes of JPII again, I say good riddance. The post-Vatican II church has been a disaster full of self-congratulatory arrogance. Vatican II began with John XXIII, followed by Paul VI. Then John Paul I and John Paul II (who I've heard numerous times in recent days referred to as John Paul the Great). All four popes since Vatican II (save for Benedict XV and Francis, of course) are being investigated for Sainthood. What a surprise.
I am not Catholic bashing. I am a Catholic, lamenting my Church being torn apart from the inside for the past 50 years and seeing modern day Catholics with no real understanding of the history or traditions of their Church celebrating that destruction.
It sounds not unlike what I would expect from militant religious orders founded in the 1500s.
You take about any religion and examine the entirety of is ancient texts, you're bound to find some things.Sikhs carry daggers; you think that makes anyone's hair curl?
Lighten up, Dave.
Guess what? So he's human...and life happens. So what? Everyone's got a past and he ain't no saint...at least not yet. Again, so what. If he's a real person that understands life today he will be good for the church. If he's a stick in the mud like most popes have been he will keep the church in the Middle Ages like it has been, well I guess since the Middle Ages. The church definitely needs to grow up and accept that people have changed. As noted in this post a lot of folks, including Catholics, don't care about the pope. That's ok I guess. There's an argument for everything an I can be said that the pope is a position in Christianity that has outlived its usefulness in most of today's societies. I cold be ok with that as I am a Christian and a catholic and I can say with confidence the pope has never influenced anything in my life. Yes, the church has, actually Christianity has, and the pope is certainly part of the church. But unlike folks that are totally consumed by Catholicism I don't require a spokes person or an intermediary to control my prayers to God.
That's where you are wrong. The Church, founded by Christ, does not need to "accept" anything. The Church is the repository of Truth and if certain people choose not to agree with it, that's their free will. Truth does not change to suit the times. That's what makes it truth...it is, has, and always will be.
I couldn't tell by this statement whether you are saying you are a Catholic or not. It sounded like you were. The position of Pope was created by Christ Himself when He told Peter he was the rock upon which He would build His church and that He would give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven (the symbolism behind the keys in papal emblems). I would dare not say that if Christ saw the need for a Shepard for his Church, that it has "outlived its usefulness". That's a highly arrogant assumption for you to make.
I do have to ask why you even bother calling yourself Catholic, if you have such a pessimistic view toward it?
I couldn't tell by this statement whether you are saying you are a Catholic or not. It sounded like you were. The position of Pope was created by Christ Himself when He told Peter he was the rock upon which He would build His church and that He would give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven (the symbolism behind the keys in papal emblems). I would dare not say that if Christ saw the need for a Shepard for his Church, that it has "outlived its usefulness". That's a highly arrogant assumption for you to make.
Yes, I am Catholic. I actually chose to be Catholic...not a cradle Catholic a convert.
Is the Pope the shepard for all Christians? If your answer is yes; why do all of the other Christian faiths exist? I'm not tying to be annoying I really want to know. I attended a lot of other Christian churches (various Baptist & Methodist) before taking the classes to become Catholic. I don't remember any of them "following the Pope." Many of the other Christian faiths don't have the regimented lifestyle stance that Catholicism has. Not that what any Christian church does is right or wrong they are just different. The ritualistic nature of Catholic mass is also not been observed by me in the other Christian church services. The stoic boring, constantly consistant nature of the Catholic mass has the opportuntity to breed passive observers rather than nuture active particpants in the church. Years ago, I challenged Father Eichoff to change the order of the mass to wake folks up...he laughed and said he would never do it. Not because it would violate some Catholic tort but because he did not want to shock the flock. Most Catholics I've ever met have a very close minded, laser focused on Catholicism opinion about life. I haven't noticed other Catholics commenting openly about other Christian faiths but I have been confronted by folks from other churches, mainly Baptist and the charismatic churches, about Catholicism. Many of these folks don't even think Catholics are Christians...what the hell is up with that? I'll still not back off of my opinion that the Pope or any other person needs to your intermediary to God. Certainly I know this goes against Catholic beliefs but I know it is difficult to near impossible for anyone to completely agree with everything their church says. We're human we have to have differnces. If we did not have differences of opinions there would not be all the differenct faiths within Christianity...we would all be one church.
Yes, I am Catholic. I actually chose to be Catholic...not a cradle Catholic a convert.
Is the Pope the shepard for all Christians? If your answer is yes; why do all of the other Christian faiths exist? I'm not tying to be annoying I really want to know. I attended a lot of other Christian churches (various Baptist & Methodist) before taking the classes to become Catholic. I don't remember any of them "following the Pope." Many of the other Christian faiths don't have the regimented lifestyle stance that Catholicism has. Not that what any Christian church does is right or wrong they are just different. The ritualistic nature of Catholic mass is also not been observed by me in the other Christian church services. The stoic boring, constantly consistant nature of the Catholic mass has the opportuntity to breed passive observers rather than nuture active particpants in the church. Years ago, I challenged Father Eichoff to change the order of the mass to wake folks up...he laughed and said he would never do it. Not because it would violate some Catholic tort but because he did not want to shock the flock. Most Catholics I've ever met have a very close minded, laser focused on Catholicism opinion about life. I haven't noticed other Catholics commenting openly about other Christian faiths but I have been confronted by folks from other churches, mainly Baptist and the charismatic churches, about Catholicism. Many of these folks don't even think Catholics are Christians...what the hell is up with that? I'll still not back off of my opinion that the Pope or any other person needs to your intermediary to God. Certainly I know this goes against Catholic beliefs but I know it is difficult to near impossible for anyone to completely agree with everything their church says. We're human we have to have differnces. If we did not have differences of opinions there would not be all the differenct faiths within Christianity...we would all be one church.
Stop the Catholic bashing...PERIOD.
Part of what I don't get about you guys (OSA members) is you are awfully quick to attack others different than you, even other members here with whom you share common political beliefs and common love of guns. It is counterproductive and kinda stupid.
There is bad in all churches. The sex abuse scandals are a stain on the Catholic church that may never completely fade. Many priests and bishops should be in jail for what they did and what they allowed to happen. There was a complete and utter failure of leadership and failure to protect the most innocent among us.
However, how is that different from what's happened recently at Victory Christian? Charismatic churches have the same type of sex scandals. It just doesn't get as much press, because for the most part, they are individual institutions.
So, either grow up and respect each others' religious beliefs, or GTFO of the site. I'd say the same thing if you guys were attacking Charismatics, Baptists, Methodists, etc.
We are BETTER than this. Focus on what unites us. We need to be coming together, not insulting one another over who has the best way to communicate with God.
Part of what I don't get about you guys (OSA members) is you are awfully quick to attack others different than you, even other members here with whom you share common political beliefs and common love of guns. It is counterproductive and kinda stupid.
There is bad in all churches. The sex abuse scandals are a stain on the Catholic church that may never completely fade. Many priests and bishops should be in jail for what they did and what they allowed to happen. There was a complete and utter failure of leadership and failure to protect the most innocent among us.
However, how is that different from what's happened recently at Victory Christian? Charismatic churches have the same type of sex scandals. It just doesn't get as much press, because for the most part, they are individual institutions.
So, either grow up and respect each others' religious beliefs, or GTFO of the site. I'd say the same thing if you guys were attacking Charismatics, Baptists, Methodists, etc.
We are BETTER than this. Focus on what unites us. We need to be coming together, not insulting one another over who has the best way to communicate with God.
JB,
I think that's a great message and I'll add a different spin in the same vein of being careful how you categorize and demonize people.
AS AN EXAMPLE ONLY - How many on this site are step-fathers or males living in the house with a minor female not blood related (daughter of your girlfriend, etc.)? If you happen to be in such a situation - you are, statistically, the number one most likely sexual abuser. Should that indictment fall on all step-fathers or foster fathers? No, of course not but it can easily be used that way by those so inclined. Which does not mean that there isn't a real problem to be addressed just that it is all too easy to make "slip" from addressing the real issue and scope to scatter fire on all of a certain group.
I think that's a great message and I'll add a different spin in the same vein of being careful how you categorize and demonize people.
AS AN EXAMPLE ONLY - How many on this site are step-fathers or males living in the house with a minor female not blood related (daughter of your girlfriend, etc.)? If you happen to be in such a situation - you are, statistically, the number one most likely sexual abuser. Should that indictment fall on all step-fathers or foster fathers? No, of course not but it can easily be used that way by those so inclined. Which does not mean that there isn't a real problem to be addressed just that it is all too easy to make "slip" from addressing the real issue and scope to scatter fire on all of a certain group.
thank you, youre about the only reason I still come to OSA.
