Why do you show your CWL?

[Glocktogo]

First of all, thanks for your input Glock2go. A LEOs opinion is very much appreciated and respected. Even more so for you, because I fear the wrath of BB.I am definitely going to rethink my normal procedure, but as I indicated I pretty much knew I was trading "suspicion" for "safety", which I hope a LEO would appreciate. For my current vehicles I keep insurance handy in the center console or visor and have no need to dig in the glove box. But I do wiggle around to remove my wallet from my pocket and my DL from my wallet.

I am very curious to know under what authority is a CWL holder is compelled to show their license? From a common sense perspective, it seems that if you have a license for something, you might be obligated to display or present it to some authority. But of course common sense and the law are two different things.

This seems similar to having a drivers license, but when pulled over for a traffic stop I know that I am compelled by state statute to present my license. Though I am not obligated to show my license upon demand at all other times. I am not aware of any law that requires me to present my CWL.

I think you may have me confused with GlockCop.

As for the license, you're required to carry it with you at all times you're carrying concealed. The reason for that is to present it to an officer if requested. If you are carrying concealed, have a license and refuse to present it, the officer can cite you for unlawful carry and require you to secure it in accordance with laws governing non-SDA permit transport.

You might get out of the citation, but it would cost you time and effort to do so. The officer would be in the right to cite you because you didn't/couldn't/wouldn't produce evidence to prove you were carrying lawfully.

The law states that "It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes in contact with any law enforcement officer........"

Just presenting him your Oklahoma CWL does not meet these requirements. That just tells him that you have a license. It does not tell him that you have a concealed weapon in your possession. You must verbally inform him that you have a weapon concealed on your person or in your vehicle.

You are not required to present your license unless asked. He may wish to verify that you do have a license and you are carrying the license.

If you look at the back of your license, it states:

"This license must be carried by licensee at all times a concealed weapon is in your possession."

I have heard of instances where the officer making the stop was handed the DL and the CWL at the same time and crawled the driver because he did not verbally inform the officer of the fact that the driver was carrying.

The officer said he might not have noticed the card behind the DL for a while and he wished to be informed, as the law stipulates.

That's why I said to present the SDA card "on top" of the DL. Obviously if you do not have your SDA/DL ready to hand to the officer when they arrive at your window, you need to verbally notify him before fishing out your wallet.

Where it states "fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes in contact with any law enforcement officer........", I believe you're ok by presenting the permit as soon as he arrives at your window. If someone hands me an SDA card, my natural assumption is that he's carrying. If I'm not sure, I can ask where it is. If he tells me where, we're good.

All of this can be accomplished in the first 5-10 seconds of contact. No officer would win a case against a permit holder for using the card in this manner to identify that they're carrying. While it's officer preference as to how they want the notification made, they're being unreasonable if they demand it be done in one way only. The SDA law does not stipulate how the notification shall be made.

 

[Slack]

I think you may have me confused with GlockCop.

You are correct, all Glocks look the same to me. Though since you are a LEO, I suspect BB has your back anyway :-)

 

[Slack]

As for the license, you're required to carry it with you at all times you're carrying concealed. The reason for that is to present it to an officer if requested. If you are carrying concealed, have a license and refuse to present it, the officer can cite you for unlawful carry and require you to secure it in accordance with laws governing non-SDA permit transport.

You might get out of the citation, but it would cost you time and effort to do so. The officer would be in the right to cite you because you didn't/couldn't/wouldn't produce evidence to prove you were carrying lawfully.

I don't believe your reason is stated in the statutes, though it would seem that your reason was the likely intended purpose for being required to carry your CWL when in possession of a concealed weapon.

So you are really telling me that a person can't be legally compelled to show their CWL. But it is much more practical just to show it, especially after they just confessed to carrying a concealed weapon to a police officer

I know I am being a pain, but it is my duty. When I submitted my CWL application I swore an oath to be knowledgeable of the provisions of the SDA. A failure of me to uphold this duty could result in me losing my CWL.

 

[KurtM]

I still can't get my head around the "disclosure" law (Ok. Tx.). Most othere States I have lived in or travel through don't requier disclosure. It seems to me that by telling them you have a weapon, hightens the response, needlesly! If you are a "bad guy" it doesn't matter to you if you have a permit or not. If you are a good guy, why should it matter? IF, durring a traffic stop, you are required to get out of the vehicle or are subject to search... then I could see disclosing, but other than that it seems to NEEDLESSLY alarm officers!

NO ONE!!!!!, with malfeasence in mind, would tell an Officer they were armed, and conversly anyone with a "legal" CCW, wouldn't mind. It all just seems to me that this is designed to cause more problems than it is worth in "officer safety". There have been a few times I have been pulled over and "lied" that "no I don't have a gun", and a few times I have said yes here is my CCW....and in all those times I was treated better by sayin "NO"!

I wish Oklahoma would grow up! If they are bad you will know by the muzzle flash, if they are good.....well nothing will happen!!!! except enhance state revenue! yep I was speeding! KurtM

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

I don't believe your reason is stated in the statutes, though it would seem that your reason was the likely intended purpose for being required to carry your CWL when in possession of a concealed weapon.

So you are really telling me that a person can't be legally compelled to show their CWL. But it is much more practical just to show it, especially after they just confessed to carrying a concealed weapon to a police officer

I know I am being a pain, but it is my duty. When I submitted my CWL application I swore an oath to be knowledgeable of the provisions of the SDA. A failure of me to uphold this duty could result in me losing my CWL.

Yes, you can be legally compelled to show your CWL if the officer asks you to prove you have said license and to prove you are carrying it in accordance with the law.

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

I still can't get my head around the "disclosure" law (Ok. Tx.). Most othere States I have lived in or travel through don't requier disclosure. It seems to me that by telling them you have a weapon, hightens the response, needlesly! If you are a "bad guy" it doesn't matter to you if you have a permit or not. If you are a good guy, why should it matter? IF, durring a traffic stop, you are required to get out of the vehicle or are subject to search... then I could see disclosing, but other than that it seems to NEEDLESSLY alarm officers!

NO ONE!!!!!, with malfeasence in mind, would tell an Officer they were armed, and conversly anyone with a "legal" CCW, wouldn't mind. It all just seems to me that this is designed to cause more problems than it is worth in "officer safety". There have been a few times I have been pulled over and "lied" that "no I don't have a gun", and a few times I have said yes here is my CCW....and in all those times I was treated better by sayin "NO"!

I wish Oklahoma would grow up! If they are bad you will know by the muzzle flash, if they are good.....well nothing will happen!!!! except enhance state revenue! yep I was speeding! KurtM

Our state legislature decided that was to be a requirement of the Self Defense Act, that we would notify any LEO that we were carrying a concealed firearm. I don't see it as a problem, because we can at least carry a firearm, where other states don't have that part of their Second Amendment Rights restored.

I am pretty sure we will see some changes in the law this year, hopefully some improvements to make our lives easier and better.

 

[jarhead983]

I have been stopped once while carrying, no seatbelt. I handed my DL with the CCL on top. No Problems.

I at times have people in my car that I don't want to know that I have a weapon. "We" are not allowed to carry at work. "I" am. I don't like the situation, but it is what it is. I don't believe this has been an issue with anyone wanting too, but the signs are up indicating that we can't. The owner isn't as enlightened as we are. But there could be issues if I was to announce to an officer that I had a CCW while going to lunch with co-workers. I hope that the presenting of the CCL will be sufficient and that the LEO will be discreet. If presenting only the CCL is not acceptable, I will have to bite the bullit and tell him. I won't disregard the law to protect myself from confrontation at work. I may have to refuse to travel with anyone, just to avoid this issue.

 

[1911user]

I have shown mine once to a LEO in hopes of getting a warning instead of a ticket (I was not carrying a gun at the time); it didn't work. I was speeding somewhat in a construction zone and got a ticket, which I paid. In theory, he changed it from 12 over to 9 over, but I suspect everyone got that deal as an incentive to pay rather than challenge it in court.

 

[langston302]

Glock makes the same point I would have.

I will tell you from past experience that someone who moves about in the car and is "digging" ( I never understood why people cant keep insurance in the same place and get rid of their old forms or know where the DL is) will make any reasonable LEO pay closer attention. Its what have been and still are what we call "Clues".
Why draw anymore attention than you want?
My personal preferred way as with most officers I know is this:
Hands on the wheel with both ID and your insurance readily available and upon the officers approach the first thing said is " I have my CCW and I am armed. My weapon is located "x""
This will make everything VERY clear and will make most "MOST" officers happy with you.
This is just my humble input about the stop itself. I will not go into 21-1289/90

 

[deja]

I still can't get my head around the "disclosure" law (Ok. Tx.). Most othere States I have lived in or travel through don't requier disclosure. It seems to me that by telling them you have a weapon, hightens the response, needlesly! If you are a "bad guy" it doesn't matter to you if you have a permit or not. If you are a good guy, why should it matter? IF, durring a traffic stop, you are required to get out of the vehicle or are subject to search... then I could see disclosing, but other than that it seems to NEEDLESSLY alarm officers!

NO ONE!!!!!, with malfeasence in mind, would tell an Officer they were armed, and conversly anyone with a "legal" CCW, wouldn't mind. It all just seems to me that this is designed to cause more problems than it is worth in "officer safety". There have been a few times I have been pulled over and "lied" that "no I don't have a gun", and a few times I have said yes here is my CCW....and in all those times I was treated better by sayin "NO"!

I wish Oklahoma would grow up! If they are bad you will know by the muzzle flash, if they are good.....well nothing will happen!!!! except enhance state revenue! yep I was speeding! KurtM

Way too logical for something that's going to get made into a law. The law uses the same logic as any other gun control, except that by virtue that we're allowed to carry a gun, it's less strict.

That is to say, it's illogical. It makes people feel better while accomplishing basically nothing. Nature of the beast.

But it doesn't hurt the cops. They're going to assume you might be armed anyway, whether you say so or not.