Minimum Wage - the fallout!

Shootin 4 Fun · Jul 30, 2015

Just one question. Where would these adults that are working fast food find employment that pays more than minimum wage? Thirty years ago the might have found a low skilled job in a manufacturing facility, but there aren't many of those jobs left. It seems that we destroyed ourselves by trying to save ourselves into prosperity.

Hoov · Jul 30, 2015

YukonGlocker said:
Earned wages aren't subsidies.

I didn't say earned wages were subsidies. And you still haven't addressed the relationship between inflation and an increased minimum wage that hurts those it was designed to help.

Commander Keen · Jul 30, 2015

Shootin 4 Fun said:
Just one question. Where would these adults that are working fast food find employment that pays more than minimum wage? Thirty years ago the might have found a low skilled job in a manufacturing facility, but there aren't many of those jobs left. It seems that we destroyed ourselves by trying to save ourselves into prosperity.

The oilfields pays well. But who wants to work long hours outdoors doing hard work these days?

Shootin 4 Fun · Jul 30, 2015

Commander Keen said:
The oilfields pays well. But who wants to work long hours outdoors doing hard work these days?

I'm pretty sure the oilfield isn't a good fit for a 28 y/o mother of three living in Seattle.

ETA: You might also be too young to realize how badly the oilfield fawked Oklahoma's economy in the early 80's. I know a lot of men that wouldn't leave the stability of a $40k job for a short term wage increase in the oilfield because of how the bust effected their families back then.

henschman · Jul 30, 2015

The money is there, but the problem is greed. All these selfish people who control capital think they have a right to the product of their own labor, and have a right to deal with other people by mutual consent. What they fail to understand is that the highest value of a just society is not freedom or consent, but NEED. Need trumps all. If a person has a need, it is justified for anybody with the means to meet it to be forced to do so by any means necessary. Massive threats of violence will probably be necessary, because of how corrupt people are, and how they are always wanting to selfishly provide for only the people they care about, instead of loving all of humanity equally.

But the problem isn't as simple as simply taking from folks with means and giving it to those with needs... people also have a need for self-esteem. That is why you can't just give low wage earners direct welfare... at least some of the welfare needs to be disguised as wages, so people can feel like they are worth something even if they are not. That's where minimum wage laws come in. Force capital to pay laborers a certain minimum amount, regardless of the individual laborer's actual skills and abilities. Sure it causes distortions in the economy, but it is worth it because someone's need is being met.

:wink2:

Dave70968 · Jul 30, 2015

YukonGlocker said:
Earned wages aren't subsidies.

They are when they are artificially paid above their value.

mr ed · Jul 30, 2015

One thing you all have not discussed is the fact that a lot of the low wage earners are unemployable due to convictions. All the higher paying jobs require a fairly clean background check. So they're never going to escape their situation.

Shootin 4 Fun · Jul 30, 2015

mr ed said:
One thing you all have not discussed is the fact that a lot of the low wage earners are unemployable due to convictions. All the higher paying jobs require a fairly clean background check. So they're never going to escape their situation.

Although, I doubt that a huge percentage of those are minimum wage earners, you bring up a good point. If a person has served their time, have they not paid their debt to society? Should companies be allowed to openly discriminate?

Defnestor · Jul 30, 2015

Shootin 4 Fun said:
Although, I doubt that a huge percentage of those are minimum wage earners, you bring up a good point. If a person has served their time, have they not paid their debt to society? Should companies be allowed to openly discriminate?

That depends, if a guy has three assaults on his record using blunt instruments, does Home Despot really want to hire him for the tool section?

dennishoddy · Jul 30, 2015

Shootin 4 Fun said:
Although, I doubt that a huge percentage of those are minimum wage earners, you bring up a good point. If a person has served their time, have they not paid their debt to society? Should companies be allowed to openly discriminate?

If they have served the time, they are done with it IMHO. Paid their price to society, but they do lack some social skills that come naturally when in a normal society.
Coming out of the slammer, they have different social skills unless its from one of the country club prisons.
The Half way houses should mediate some of that prison issue.

Currently a lot, not all oil field companies are hiring ex cons. They are put on the same probation period as someone that has not been to prison. They pay more than burger flipping, but the work is WORK.

Oil field employment in general is down now, but I still see signs around the oilfield transportation companies looking for drivers. Some will train.

Minimum Wage - the fallout!

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