Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
How many of these incidents will it take before "braces" become the next bump-stock?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This x infinity!
Not many more would be my guess. Even if it was originally a device to help handicapped shooters participate with greater ease.
I think "AR Pistols" should have a sharpened spike on the end of the buffer tube vs the "tail hook" so they are used as designed.
Nothing but a work around to avoid a class III.
I've never seen anyone fire an "AR Pistol" as a pistol at our range. They always shoulder the tail hook.
I wonder if the lady in the response video a few pages back is the only one questioning how many guns a person should carry for protection.
I completely support the goal of normalizing the sight of firearms being carried in everyday situations, including taking a walk in the park. There’s no good reason the sight of someone carrying a firearm should be alarming absent any indication they intend to use it for an unlawful purpose. But we’re not there yet. What this guy did was too inflammatory for the current climate. Heck, it appears it was too inflammatory for most of OSA. It was a strategic mistake. People need time and gradual steps to acclimate to the fact that their fears of firearms are irrational and that countless ordinary people carry guns around them every day without anything bad happening as a result.
This guy’s purpose of educating the public and the police would have been better served by doing something more organized, like carrying AR style pistols in a group, including women and children, and notifying police ahead of time. That would have been perceived as less threatening to the current societal norms, since it would have framed it more as a political demonstration and removed the element of an urgent police response, but still would have moved the needle and forced Edmond PD to educate themselves of the relevant laws. Do that once or twice, get it on the news, and then a guy going for a walk alone in the park with a gun on a sling doesn’t seem like such an emergency. Still going to make people nervous? Yep. And that’s okay. The more experiences people have where they encounter guns being used/carried lawfully and their worst fears aren’t realized, the more they will internalize the fact that lawful gun ownership, even of scary-looking guns, is not the threat they imagine it to be.
Now, I would prefer not to have people carrying long guns around all the time. I don’t think there’s ordinarily a compelling reason to and I’m not crazy about the idea of people walking around without triggers covered by a holster. If I’m at the park with my kids and a guy walks by with an AR-15, I might be uncomfortable. And I’ll keep an eye on him. But he has just as much right to use the park as I do, and to carry whatever firearm he believes is most suitable for him and his lawful purposes. If I get uncomfortable enough, I’m free to leave the park. I’m willing to put up with that inconvenience to know that whatever situation arises, I and everyone else in Oklahoma will have the freedom to choose whatever weapon is appropriate for the circumstances. For example, if there’s massive civil unrest and I have to go out in public (something I would avoid if at all possible), I’m not going to take only a pistol. If that situation came up and police hadn’t already been exposed to lawful rifle carry, it’s likely they would try to prevent it. Auditors like Tim, despite how frustrating they can be and the mistakes they make, are helping keep those rights alive for the rest of us. So just as much as they deserve to be criticized for their errors, they deserve to be thanked for doing a thankless job and for the things they get right. In this case, we can all probably at least agree that he was respectful and obedient to the police’s lawful orders (although technically the SDA doesn’t allow disarming a licensee like they did).
Someone mentioned that we can’t tell a long gun toting hick out on a grocery trip from a mass shooter. Seriously? That’s the same tired argument used against open carrying holstered pistols. You want to know how to tell the difference? The mass shooter is the guy pointing a gun and shooting at people, not the guy putting eggs and milk in his shopping cart. If you’re imagining the presence of a gun being your main clue that someone is up to no good, you are in dire need of reevaluating your survival preparedness. Far more important and relevant than being able to say “derp, that guy has a gun,” is having good situational awareness and the ability to recognize and respond to pre-attack indicators. Not every violent criminal is going to come at you with an AR-15 in hand. Be more wary of people who aren’t acting right than people who happen to be openly carrying a firearm, long or otherwise.
This guy’s purpose of educating the public and the police would have been better served by doing something more organized, like carrying AR style pistols in a group, including women and children, and notifying police ahead of time. That would have been perceived as less threatening to the current societal norms, since it would have framed it more as a political demonstration and removed the element of an urgent police response, but still would have moved the needle and forced Edmond PD to educate themselves of the relevant laws. Do that once or twice, get it on the news, and then a guy going for a walk alone in the park with a gun on a sling doesn’t seem like such an emergency. Still going to make people nervous? Yep. And that’s okay. The more experiences people have where they encounter guns being used/carried lawfully and their worst fears aren’t realized, the more they will internalize the fact that lawful gun ownership, even of scary-looking guns, is not the threat they imagine it to be.
Now, I would prefer not to have people carrying long guns around all the time. I don’t think there’s ordinarily a compelling reason to and I’m not crazy about the idea of people walking around without triggers covered by a holster. If I’m at the park with my kids and a guy walks by with an AR-15, I might be uncomfortable. And I’ll keep an eye on him. But he has just as much right to use the park as I do, and to carry whatever firearm he believes is most suitable for him and his lawful purposes. If I get uncomfortable enough, I’m free to leave the park. I’m willing to put up with that inconvenience to know that whatever situation arises, I and everyone else in Oklahoma will have the freedom to choose whatever weapon is appropriate for the circumstances. For example, if there’s massive civil unrest and I have to go out in public (something I would avoid if at all possible), I’m not going to take only a pistol. If that situation came up and police hadn’t already been exposed to lawful rifle carry, it’s likely they would try to prevent it. Auditors like Tim, despite how frustrating they can be and the mistakes they make, are helping keep those rights alive for the rest of us. So just as much as they deserve to be criticized for their errors, they deserve to be thanked for doing a thankless job and for the things they get right. In this case, we can all probably at least agree that he was respectful and obedient to the police’s lawful orders (although technically the SDA doesn’t allow disarming a licensee like they did).
Someone mentioned that we can’t tell a long gun toting hick out on a grocery trip from a mass shooter. Seriously? That’s the same tired argument used against open carrying holstered pistols. You want to know how to tell the difference? The mass shooter is the guy pointing a gun and shooting at people, not the guy putting eggs and milk in his shopping cart. If you’re imagining the presence of a gun being your main clue that someone is up to no good, you are in dire need of reevaluating your survival preparedness. Far more important and relevant than being able to say “derp, that guy has a gun,” is having good situational awareness and the ability to recognize and respond to pre-attack indicators. Not every violent criminal is going to come at you with an AR-15 in hand. Be more wary of people who aren’t acting right than people who happen to be openly carrying a firearm, long or otherwise.
Just watched the response video from the woman who was in the park when this happened. I don’t at all condone someone going out in public and being dodgy and suspicious while carrying to try to get a reaction. If someone doesn’t have the maturity and discipline to behave no differently when carrying a gun than when not carrying, they should re-evaluate their decision to carry and certainly shouldn’t be involved in a 2nd Amendment audit. I’ve been giving Tim the benefit of the doubt that he wasn’t being a total dick and was making every effort to behave normally, partly because I’ve had the misfortune of having my behavior unfairly judged, motives assigned, assumptions made, etc. in a situation involving carrying. Because of that I still am not willing to pass judgement without a clear understanding of how he was behaving. But if that woman’s description of how he was acting is accurate (standing around next to her car, wandering awkwardly), he was way out of line. You don’t have to intentionally do stuff that freaks people out to perform a rights audit.
You missed the point of our argument. It wasn't because he had a gun, it was the fact that he was strapped with two guns on his waist, multiple ammo holders, knives, and an AR pistol on a sling. Its like saying a guy with a single joint is not going to get slapped with intent to distribute. Now a guy with 40-50 joints on him? Even IF they were for personal use he could get charged with intent to distribute. The same thing applies here. Is a guy carrying a single firearm in open carry a likely suspect for being a mass shooter? No. Is a guy decked out like Neo in the scene where he and Trindy break out Morpheus a likely mass shooter? Hell yes. Life is not white and black, there are several shades of grey in the spectrum. This guy was in the darker shades of gray and he damn well knew it because he stated it was his intent to draw a police reaction. That right there is the problem.
Interesting. Where did you learn that he was carrying all of that?
The response video from a woman in the park that was posted further back in this thread. She talked about all the firearms, knives and ammo he was carrying. He walked right by her vehicle while she was putting her son in his car seat. You can tell it really scared her.
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