Copper Fouling Question

[swampratt]

I do not like to leave anything except oil over night.
the gun will tell you what it likes.. if you have been getting groups that please you with your way of cleaning then keep doing what you are doing.

I will oil after all cleaning is done and then run a couple more dry patches through the bore before I shoot it.

If accuracy falls off I clean the barrel.

 

[scottb42]

I really like Wipe-Out foaming cleaner for my copper-busting chores: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...ss-foaming-bore-cleaning-solvent-5-oz-aerosol

Leave it in the bore for an hour or two, push a patch through and if there was copper in the bore the patch will come out the other end a nice shade of blue. Perform this operation over a trash can lest some of the blue juice drip and stain the floor, though it would give you the opportunity to impress your friends by telling them that a smurf gang war was fought on that very spot.

 

[Lakenut]

Update on my savage...i went shoot one, clean one for the first 10, then shoot 3, clean for the next 3 groups. That was range session 1. A good cleaning took place. Lots of copper in the grooves....which has me wondering if my between shot cleanings did much.

Range session 2 saw no cleanings between groups....just go and shoot. I shot 3 shot groups letting the gun cool 10-15min in etween groups. The bbl never got hot....but never got back to ambient temp before the next group went down range. I sent 21 rounds down range. I cleaned when I got home and found a SIGNIFICANT decrease in copper fouling, but most fouling is in the grooves. Switched to Patch Out bore cleaner and the first soak, wait 20 min, dry patch got most of the copper out.

Here is where I need advice. I would get groups under 1" on 2 out of 3 shots...but at least 1 shot of the group was 1-3" away from the other 2. I got similar results from both Hornady American Whitetail 139gr and Hornady Superformance SST 139gr. All shots were off sand bags and felt good.

1. Is this a shooter issue?
2. Is this an ammo issue?
3. Is this a bbl issue? I'm at 38 shots down range. More to break in?
4. Is it a scope issue?

Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

[magna19]

Could be any of the 4. If you shot today the wind could play in to that some. The gun may not like 139 gr. bullets. Break-in wont help 3" 3 shot groups get where you want either. And sometimes some guns just don't shoot great.

 

[beastep]

Man I agree it could be any or all of those. And today was a horrible day to shoot.

 

[magna19]

My buddy bought his daughter a high dollar Sako few years ago and it struggles to get 2.0 groups with handloads.

 

[swampratt]

I wish I loaded 7mm-08 I would make you some ammo to test.
Store ammo and my guns do not get along at all.

Now when shooting is the pressure you put on the but of the gun against your shoulder the same?
Is your hand positioning the same each time.
Is your thumb resting on the barrel if so get it off.
How about parallax on the scope.. is it dialed in at the distance you are shooting?

If you are using a front bag Notice where the bag is at and stick it in the same place every time.

Even if all that is spot on store ammo still sucks.
I seen many people at the range shooting all kinds of .308 ammo (Not match ammo) and groups were in the terrible area.

I have let them try my 308 ammo and every time this happens the groups stay under .75"

On the could be the gun issue.
I had a 7mm mauser and it would walk higher and left if i kept shooting..say 7 or 8 rounds would make a rainbow
7" high and 7" left of original POI.
Let it cool and it would print right back on the money.

A barrel that is straightened and many are will many times return to the place they were before straightening if you shoot enough to get the barrel warm.

My .308 savage heavy barrel liked the barrel to be 85-105 degrees to really bring in some tight groups.
This was a 24" barrel.
When I cut it to 20.5" it was not as picky on temps.

I used an infrared thermometer gun to check temps.
It also liked about 20 rounds down the barrel before it would shoot really good.
after 40-50 rounds I would see accuracy drop off.
Yea a lot of experimenting with that gun.

 

[dennishoddy]

Update on my savage...i went shoot one, clean one for the first 10, then shoot 3, clean for the next 3 groups. That was range session 1. A good cleaning took place. Lots of copper in the grooves....which has me wondering if my between shot cleanings did much.

Range session 2 saw no cleanings between groups....just go and shoot. I shot 3 shot groups letting the gun cool 10-15min in etween groups. The bbl never got hot....but never got back to ambient temp before the next group went down range. I sent 21 rounds down range. I cleaned when I got home and found a SIGNIFICANT decrease in copper fouling, but most fouling is in the grooves. Switched to Patch Out bore cleaner and the first soak, wait 20 min, dry patch got most of the copper out.

Here is where I need advice. I would get groups under 1" on 2 out of 3 shots...but at least 1 shot of the group was 1-3" away from the other 2. I got similar results from both Hornady American Whitetail 139gr and Hornady Superformance SST 139gr. All shots were off sand bags and felt good.

1. Is this a shooter issue?
2. Is this an ammo issue?
3. Is this a bbl issue? I'm at 38 shots down range. More to break in?
4. Is it a scope issue?

Any and all advice is appreciated.

I'm betting the first shot is the flyer, with the 2nd and 3rd grouping together.
Reason, the barrel warms up for the 2nd and third shots.
Look for that sequence the next time you go out.

 

[lee1000]

Something to also consider is barrel seasoning. A lot of match shooters want to put a few rounds through it before going for record.

 

[dennishoddy]

Something to also consider is barrel seasoning. A lot of match shooters want to put a few rounds through it before going for record.

Yup, fouling the bore I believe they call it.
As a hunter, I'm only worried about where the first cold bore shot goes. I could care less about the rest.