Crossbows?

[RidgeHunter]

The only reason I'm not THAT keen on making crossbows legal for young, non-disabled people is the fact that originally multiple deer seasons were made so that if a person wanted to put forth the time and effort it takes to hunt with something like a bow, they would be rewarded with less hunters afield and more hunting days, as well as places to hunt you cannot hunt with a rifle.

If we were just going for oppurtunity here, we could just use rifles for 3 1/2 months. Then we'd have a buttload of people in the woods all the time and all the downsides that go with that.

I have a bunch of old Guns and Ammo magazines from the 60's, the ads for bows say "Become a 2 season hunter, enjoy the fun of hunting unpressured game." That is what I like about bow season. After opening day of rifle in my area, It becomes rare to even see a deer until Christmas. Too many people, I hunt the must heavily hunted county in NE Oklahoma. I enjoy the absolute hell out of bow season and the low number of hunters.

It's not that I think I'm holier than crossbow users, it's that I'd be a little sad if it leads to having as many hunters in the woods during bow season as we do in rifle. Hopefully that won't happen. I'm all for more people hunting, but we can't just makes 3 1/2 months a "use anything you want season" just for the oppurtunity. If it's just a few compound users that switch out for a x-bow, that's their choice. I just hate to see the woods flooded with people who would never have put forth the effort to bow hunt before, when they were physically able. Selfish, but I'm being honest.
Some states have shown that their was not a huge difference in bow season hunter numbers when they legalised crossbows. I just hope that is the case here.

And no, I'm not ashamed to say what I said above. The reward for doing something most people would not put forth the effort to do was getting "your own" season. If it wasn't, there would be no such thing as bows season, only use whatever you want season.

There was a push for a really long rifle season last year too. People don't realize that the main people that would benefit are commercial hunting ops. They could book rifle hunt after rifle hunt every weekend, making huge money.....and they would buy up our land to do it. Leases would all but disappear and prices would skyrocket. See Texas. I think we will become Texas II in my lifetime, and our lease prices and land prices will double within 1-2 years of when we pass a 3 month rifle season. I'd bet on it.There are often major downsides to things that sound good on the surface, and you have to question why the lawmakers want them. Just my ramblings. I'm just glad I have private land to hunt, for now.

 

[dennishoddy]

Some states have shown that there was not a huge difference in bow season hunter numbers when they legalised crossbows. I just hope that is the case here.

I'm pretty sure this is going to be the case.
Like you I really enjoy the low pressure of bow season. Sadly, I can't use my compound anymore after surgery.
Rifle season I spend as much time hunting poachers and road-hunters as I do in the stand, and MZ season is just about as bad.

 

[RidgeHunter]

Rifle season I spend as much time hunting poachers and road-hunters as I do in the stand, and MZ season is just about as bad.

I can see myself having do the same, gets worse every year. That's a semi-auto slug gun in his hand and a grunt call in his mouth. Notice his lack of blaze orange in the middle of rifle in an area thick with hunters.

 

[Weatherby]

I'm not sure x-bows will get part time hunters in the woods more. I know some part-timers that think I'm nuts to set in the stand in September, when the temp is still in the 90s.

 

[dennishoddy]

I can see myself having do the same, gets worse every year. That's a semi-auto slug gun in his hand and a grunt call in his mouth. Notice his lack of blaze orange in the middle of rifle in an area thick with hunters.

Busted!!

I got this guy on my trail cam. Neighbor that hates us hunting on our land. He got a real expensive ticket.

 

[Buzzgun]

Yes, but it's all relative, as they say - it's all a matter of degree. Sure, a compound is easy to hold with a major letoff. But (a) some of the 55older ones have a lot less (like the '99 Hoyt I was using last year) - 55%, 60%, 65%, etc., and (b) it still gets VERY hard to hold after a couple of minutes, and/or if you're older/weaker/female. It's all relative to your physical condition, the amount of letoff, and the time you 'need' to hold to wait for the game to step where you want.

When 85% let-off bows came into being, the 55%, 60%, 65% let-off argument became moot! Why? Because compound users had a choice of whether to use a 55% or 85% let-off bow! Doesn't matter if the bow you currently use is an old 55% let off bow because you CAN use an 85% let-off bow if you chose!

A crossbow is much much MUCH easier to get game with than a bow - it's closer to a muzzleloader than a bow you have to draw, because aside from woodsmanship, not moving or making noise is 90% of the issue, and the draw makes you move.

Absolute BS! I have personally killed deer at 204 laser measured yards with a muzzleloader. No crossbow will do that, period! The fastest crossbow made is still MUCH slower than the speed of sound, and, regardless of what you have heard or read, deer can and do "jump the string" on crossbows, just like compounds. I had a doe duck an arrow from my crossbow at less than 20 yards. She knew I was there as I had shot the buck that was with her. She made a slow half circle back in range and I decided to fill a doe tag too. She got away with just a haircut on the top of her back.



Now don't confuse "easier" and "much easier", with "TOO easy" or "unfair" - those are different ideas. But the answer to your question is yes, plenty of people who have hunted with one make the judgment that they're easier. Whether those same people come to the conclusion that they're "too easy" or "unfair", I seriously doubt it, because if they think that way, they wouldn't be using one in the first place, because they'd consider it cheating.

I have hunted extensively with recurves, compounds and crossbows. I don't have to guess as to what it takes to kill a deer with any of them.



Yes, you're exactly right! They don't want more people coming in and infringing on their exclusive season, where they act like and think they are Grizzly Adams.

There are degrees of improved performance. Don't think that I am espousing that this is a bad thing. I'm not. I like it. I want every advantage possible, personally, because I don't get to hunt that much, and hunting is HARD where I hunt deer (pressured/poachers, etc.).




Absolutely, yes - You bet it would, potentially. You didn't have to draw. That's by far and away the hardest part of bowhunting, aside from woodsmanship/getting close to the game. In fact, it's much more likely that being at 5 yards, that xbow gave you an even BIGGER advantage than had you shot it at say, 20 yards, because at 5 yards, it's really, REALLY hard to draw without getting busted. Nice deer, by the way.

I can assure you, it would have made no difference at all. I was 15 feet up in a ladder stand, tucked back into a big cedar tree. I had perfect cover. I first saw the buck at 50 yards and actually had to stand up, turn and find a hole to shoot through while the deer walked straight toward me. I accomplished this by moving while the deer was behind trees or looking the other direction for the doe that was in the area. I have been doing this long enough that I know when and how to move so as to not get busted, most of the time.

Let's not kid ourselves. Xbows offer a *tremendous* advantage. But this is a good thing, as far as I am concerned, not a bad thing. I just don't care about having these 'traditional' seasons. I see the point of view of those that do, and don't blame them at all for thinking that way, but with the deer population exploding, I have no problem at all with this rule. I like it.


There are really only two advantages a crossbow has over a modern, state-of-the-art compound. First is that the bow does not have to be drawn just before the shot, and, second, a crossbow is easier for a beginner to shoot well.

However, crossbows are heavier, much more bulky, louder and, generally, a pain in the butt to carry through the woods and use in a treestand.

If crossbows have such a "*tremendous* advantage", then why is the success rate between crossbows and vertical bows nearly the same in states that allow both??

For example, in Arkansas, which has allowed crossbow use in general archery season by anyone:

http://www.agfc.com/!userfiles/pdfs/reports/deer_report_2005-06.pdf

In the '04-'05 season, crossbow hunters killed 4374 deer and "archery" hunters killed 8720 deer.

In the '05-'06 season, crossbow hunters took 3650 deer and "archery" hunters took 7793 deer.


Other state harvest figures show that the success rate is very close for both types of equipment.

The facts just don't support the assertion that crossbows are a "*tremendous* advantage", at least not when it comes to actual hunting success.

 

[Buzzgun]

The only reason I'm not THAT keen on making crossbows legal for young, non-disabled people is the fact that originally multiple deer seasons were made so that if a person wanted to put forth the time and effort it takes to hunt with something like a bow, they would be rewarded with less hunters afield and more hunting days, as well as places to hunt you cannot hunt with a rifle.

Fine, limit everyone to what was actually available when those original seasons were established. That means no compound bows, no aluminum, fiberglass or carbon arrows, no replaceable blade broadheads, no treestands, no synthetic clothing, very little public hunting land, etc.

Another problem with the "original intent" argument is that there were not many deer in Oklahoma when those seasons were established. Now, many areas have more deer than that the habitat can support.

 

[RidgeHunter]

Fine, limit everyone to what was actually available when those original seasons were established. That means no compound bows, no aluminum, fiberglass or carbon arrows, no replaceable blade broadheads, no treestands, no synthetic clothing, very little public hunting land, etc.

Another problem with the "original intent" argument is that there were not many deer in Oklahoma when those seasons were established. Now, many areas have more deer than that the habitat can support.

I'm not being an equipment elitist, I don't play that game and think it's stupid. It goes down and down the ladder, to your guys that think they are holier than thou because they shoot a one piece self bow vs. a lam bow. Those type of people are stupid, and I don't subscribe to the holier than thou school of thought.

I post a bit off-topic and literally to hear myself talk sometimes (thinking "out loud"). Sorry for the confusion.

The crossbow thing does not bother me much at all really, I don't think it will be that big a deal.

My ramblings are geared more towards a gut feeling I have that Oklahoma is going to a very long "general season" eventually, based on some proposed changes that have been put forth over the past few years. I can't prove it, I just have a gut feeling.

I'm a firm believer in multiple method seasons, for a variety of reasons. I've long wanted a 9 day Flintlock Muzzleloader season in late winter. That would be more opportunity (currently just bow season) and would be a blast, and encourage a few thousand people to pick up a new hunting hobby. That's my OPINION (key word) of what hunting is all about.

I'm not that worried about others using an x-bow in archery season, I'm more worried that eventually we will not even have much, if any of an "archery season". Just a gut feeling. I see a maybe something like Sept 15th- Oct 15th being archery, and Oct. 15th - Jan 15th being "general" in the near future, and I'm defiently not a fan of that. Again, this is literally a gut feeling I can't prove based on some things that have been "pushed" over the last few years. Sorry if it's a bit off topic.

 

[Buzzgun]

Glad to hear you aren't an equipment elitist (I call them equipment snobs )

The whole idea should be to preserve the hunting heritage so we don't loose it all!!

As long as it is legal, we should support all methods.

 

[tjones96761]

I just bought my first bow, a Mathews Reezen, off Ebay about 2 months ago. Sole purpose was to extend my hunting season, not because it's more challenging, more traditional, etc. I shoot nearly every evening for about 30 minutes and I really enjoy it. I've have noticed some wrist issues that I thought were gone along with my football days starting to show up again.
Said all that to say this: I'm selling my bow and buying a TAC-15. I never wanted to be a bow hunter, just wanted more days to hunt. Maybe when I master the crossbow and it becomes too easy to shoot a trophy, then I'll try a regular bow again. I've been hunting with a rifle for 15 years, and it's just as hard to kill a trophy today as it was the day I started hunting, so I don't really expect any hunting to become too easy.
If it goes like Ridghunter predicts and they make a 3 month general season, I'll sell the crossbow and buy another rifle.
I think there are a lot of people out there that will crossbow hunt that would never attempt to bow hunt. Same as there are a lot of people out there that will hunt with an inline, shotgun primed, sabotted, scoped, rifled, 200yd muzzleloader that would never pick up a flintlock or percussion cap muzzleloader.