International travel with guns !

[50GI Jess]

Hi all,
If starting from a smaller airport without US Custom officers, going to a bigger airport with US customs and connecting flights for Europe. Then how would it be possible to declare any firearms, when your luggage is in transit already.
I called 5 different US Custom Service Centers, and got 5 different answers.
Jess

 

[mr ed]

I assume this post means your going overseas with a gun.
Check with Batfe. Years ago, you had to fill out a form and get it approved for the temporary export of firearms. Without that paper they wouldn't let you back in with them. They can probably tell you all the procedures you need to go thru. Some countries you need advance permission to bring them in or they will confiscate.

 

[onwmed]

I assume this post means your going overseas with a gun.
Check with Batfe. Years ago, you had to fill out a form and get it approved for the temporary export of firearms. Without that paper they wouldn't let you back in with them. They can probably tell you all the procedures you need to go thru. Some countries you need advance permission to bring them in or they will confiscate.

This is true. www.ATF.gov There is a 1800# where you can speak to an actual person.

My neighbor was driving his RV into Canada last week and the mounties asked him at the border "Sir, do you have any weapons or firearms onboard?" He said "OF COURSE I DO!" Yeah, he's shopping for a new Glock 19 now as that one was confiscated. He had no idea about the law and he's paying for it now. He was arrested and held for four hours, questioned and released on a SR bond. Luckily he just has to pay a fine (and find a new gun.)

 

[mr ed]

You might check also with one of those international hunting guides that do trips to Africa and such. I'm sure they do it all the time. There might even be one in the hunting section. You might try a search there.

25 years ago I had a customer who took one to Italy. He had no problem going there but coming back customs held it. I helped him with the big hassle. I ended up filing paperwork as an importer and he had to pay an excise tax to Atf like he was importing it, then had to pay customs for storage while Atf drug their feet. In the end he had to pay a couple hundred bucks to get his own gun back. I even had to have my name engraved on it as the importer.
If he had done it properly in the first place, it would have only cost him a postage stamp.

 

[50GI Jess]

Hi,
Yes, i know about all the Canada scary stories. ATF don't like to be confused with US Customs...already tried that.
I can't be the first person ever to start out my travel from heartland America with no custom agents, going to a major international airport trying to declare my guns out of the US, while waiting for my connecting flight and the guns being in transit from the first flight.????
IS there anyone here who knows these rules. Any US Custom agents ?
Jess

 

[SMS]

IIRC, your luggage will not be checked all the way through to your final destination until you reach the port of embarkation...I believe you will have to claim your bags and recheck for the international flight.

But it's been a long time since I flew pure-commercial out of the country so I'm just throwing that out there.

Have you completed the Form 4457? I'm pretty sure that needs to be done in advance...and once it's completed you don't actually have to interact with Customs until you return with the firearms.

Hi,
Yes, i know about all the Canada scary stories. ATF don't like to be confused with US Customs...already tried that.
I can't be the first person ever to start out my travel from heartland America with no custom agents, going to a major international airport trying to declare my guns out of the US, while waiting for my connecting flight and the guns being in transit from the first flight.????
IS there anyone here who knows these rules. Any US Custom agents ?
Jess

 

[50GI Jess]

Ok, I better tell the full story my travel to Europe.
First off I couldn't get any defined answer anywhere here in the US, before leaving. Just as backup, I went to my local police, which I shoot IDPA with by the way. They signed an affidavit, that I was the legal owner of the 2 guns I was bringning, and I could own them in my homestate without any permits. Not stolen etc. etc.
I downloaded a custom form conserning regulated items, such as jewerly, computers, gun etc. Listed my 2 guns here, make, model, caliber SN # etc.
Nobody from the local airport would sign anything, and TSA said that they woulnd't intefere with US Customs.
I asked to get my luggage back when arriving at the international airport, which they said could NOT be honored. Once in transit, it remains in transit...I was told.
Running through Atlanta airport to the customs area, in order not to miss my connecting flight, I tried to show them my earlier downloaded US customs form.
They refused to sign it, because they would have to see the guns, in order to confirm it was the right ones etc. After some debating, I talked the shift leader into signing anyways, after showing my paperwork from the local police.
Got on my plane just in time (last on board). This story is MUCH longer, but this is the short version.
This system does NOT work at all, and the most irritating thing is that, they think it's userfriendly, secure and works perfect bla. bla.
Allmost never got back into the US later, but thats a seperate story. This is the last time I'm ever going to travel outside the US with firearms.
What are the official rules, form and procedures here....anybody
Jess

 

[SMS]

I think this is the answer:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...--temporarily-taking-a-firearm,-rifle,-gun-or

Fill out the 4457 in advance and get it signed by Customs in advance. Then simply comply with airline regulations and the laws of the destination country....upon return from overseas, present your 4457 to Customs.

I did something similiar, in reverse: Bought a firearm overseas, then had to fill out Customs paperwork in advance, send to Customs for signature and have that signed paperwork in order to be able to clear Customs once I hit New York.

Looks to me like you didn't get customs to sign the form in advance...right?

 

[50GI Jess]

Hi SMS,
No I didn't get customs to sign in advance for 2 reasons. First, there's no custom offices within 2-300 miles from where i live. 2, no customs officials in my local airport anyways to verify anything.
Think about it ! Why have anything signed in advance, when it's out of their control in the meantime. For all they know, there could be any type of gun/s with different serial #. later on. It must be the last check that counts right! and besides the luggage is already in transit by that time.
I simply just don't get how the system is supposed to work as intended, if export/import and security is their major consern. otherwise the whole thing is just for show. Oh'boy, I wish now, that I had recorded all conversations and shot some video too. You, would have been completely stunned by the full story.
Jess

 

[SMS]

Hi SMS,
No I didn't get customs to sign in advance for 2 reasons. First, there's no custom offices within 2-300 miles from where i live. 2, no customs officials in my local airport anyways to verify anything.
Think about it ! Why have anything signed in advance, when it's out of their control in the meantime. For all they know, there could be any type of gun/s with different serial #. later on. It must be the last check that counts right! and besides the luggage is already in transit by that time.
I simply just don't get how the system is supposed to work as intended, if export/import and security is their major consern. otherwise the whole thing is just for show. Oh'boy, I wish now, that I had recorded all conversations and shot some video too. You, would have been completely stunned by the full story.
Jess

I get the part about the Customs office being far away...but I think some of the confusion comes from the use of the form 4457.

The 4457 is not to get the firearms out of the country...it's to get them back in when you come home.

You don't need Customs at your local airport because Customs doesn't need to see the firearms at the time you fly out...only when you return and clear Customs for rentry, and that will not be done at your local airport. When you come back, the firearms and serial #'s need to match what's on the form, or you'll have trouble.

So, If you were able to get the 4457 filled out in advance, the system actually works smooth. It took me about 10 extra minutes to clear customs when I came home through New York with a pistol I purchased in Europe....because I had all the paperwork filled out in advance.