Leaving the Sheep Unguarded

[LightningCrash]

I was under the impression you had to be 18, not 16 to be in the armed services???

I think he was getting at the fact that lots of kids who are fortunate enough to have parents who will throw money at college for them to just go and party at someone else's expense (and these are A LOT of today's students) are not responsible enough to have a handgun. However, most of these kids in these pictures are freshman, meaning 18 or 19 typically and not old enough to possess a handgun legally anyway. The only people at college old enough, typically, to own and conceal handgun legally would be Seniors who are generally, A) Busy finishing up and graduating B) More aware of their limits with alcohol C) More responsible in general.

Also, again typically, these school shootings unlike most shootings happen during broad daylight which is not typically when college kids are getting plowed. Most drinking in college like most places happens at night.

Where I think I agree with the only faculty and staff being able to carry is that when these kids are drinking they will getting out their guns and showing each other and that is just a situation riddled with opportunity for AD. Forgot to tell friend gun is loaded, muzzle discipline, checking chambered if slide not locked back, all the little really important stuff will be overlooked when intoxicated.

18 year olds can own handguns. Carrying a pistol pursuant to the SDA is obviously a different story.
All of the arguments you make against college carry are made against all concealed carry. Firearm accidents and negligence are at an all-time low.

 

[NikatKimber]

I don't have a problem with arming teachers and staff....but I have reservations about arming these guys.....[Broken External Image]

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I just don't know if they got what it takes to be responsible yet...

I would wager I could find plenty of pictures of "grown" men doing stupid stuff too.

Stupid knows no age limits. That goes for irresponsible too.

Plus, many if the irresponsible students I knew were under 21 anyways, so you're point is moot there, as they couldn't qualify for CHL in the first place.

Second, even if they were over 21, they could get a CHL anyways, they could carry it everywhere (legal) EXCEPT on campus.

Third, most campuses I know of are dry campuses, meaning these pictures were either ALREADY breaking the rules, (not to mention likely underage drinking), but more likely, were taken off campus to begin with, meaning a licensed CHL holder could be carrying there already.

IM not so HO, the argument that "college students are too dumb and stupid to deserve to carry" is too dumb and stupid to belong in an intelligent discussion by gun rights people.

 

[Billybob]

When it comes to school shootings alcohol does not appear to be a common denominator, antideppressiants are.

http://ssristories.com/index.php

 

[spd67]

I would wager I could find plenty of pictures of "grown" men doing stupid stuff too.

Stupid knows no age limits. That goes for irresponsible too.

Plus, many if the irresponsible students I knew were under 21 anyways, so you're point is moot there, as they couldn't qualify for CHL in the first place.

Second, even if they were over 21, they could get a CHL anyways, they could carry it everywhere (legal) EXCEPT on campus.

Third, most campuses I know of are dry campuses, meaning these pictures were either ALREADY breaking the rules, (not to mention likely underage drinking), but more likely, were taken off campus to begin with, meaning a licensed CHL holder could be carrying there already.

IM not so HO, the argument that "college students are too dumb and stupid to deserve to carry" is too dumb and stupid to belong in an intelligent discussion by gun rights people.

Calm down there big guy it was a joke....my attempt at satire...i thought it was funny so let me say once and for all what I think about this subject...I think everyone has the god given right to defend their life by whatever means necessary and the government should not infringe on the right of honest law abiding citizens to carry a sidearm for the defense of their life.

 

[NikatKimber]

Calm down there big guy it was a joke....my attempt at satire...i thought it was funny so let me say once and for all what I think about this subject...I think everyone has the god given right to defend their life by whatever means necessary and the government should not infringe on the right of honest law abiding citizens to carry a sidearm for the defense of their life.

Sorry for leveling that at you then. Let's just say I've heard that very argument enough in serious use to assume people are joking about it.

 

[Dale00]

I'm not in favor of "putting guns into the hands of students."

I am in favor of concealed carry by "any responsible adult" on college campuses just as is allowed under the law elsewhere.

Language matters. You must sound reasonable to the average citizen and not let your opponent control the language used in the debate.

 

[shadowsbane]

I'm not in favor of "putting guns into the hands of students."

I am in favor of concealed carry by "any responsible adult" on college campuses just as is allowed under the law elsewhere.

Agreed. While I was the leader of the OK division of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus for a couple years, that was the hardest thing to get across to people. Their mind always jumps to the irresponsible 19-year-olds who like to party, get drunk and do some really stupid things. They could never understand that no one would be carrying except the people who already do. The only difference would be it's one more place they can.

 

[Dale00]

Agreed. While I was the leader of the OK division of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus for a couple years, that was the hardest thing to get across to people. Their mind always jumps to the irresponsible 19-year-olds who like to party, get drunk and do some really stupid things. They could never understand that no one would be carrying except the people who already do. The only difference would be it's one more place they can.

I commend you for your efforts. But wish that the word "student" wasn't part of the organization's name. Better to call it, "Citizens for Concealed Carry on Campuses."

 

[shadowsbane]

I commend you for your efforts. But wish that the word "student" wasn't part of the organization's name. Better to call it, "Citizens for Concealed Carry on Campuses."

Well that's why I'm the former leader. It's a student-led organization. When I stopped being a student I handed over the mantle to someone else. The group was started by V-Tech students and as far as I know, the leadership are all students to this day.

 

[Dale00]

Well that's why I'm the former leader. It's a student-led organization. When I stopped being a student I handed over the mantle to someone else. The group was started by V-Tech students and as far as I know, the leadership are all students to this day.

I understand. At one time I wrote to each of the national officers of the organization to politely try to convince them to change the name to eliminate "student" from it. Zero response. Like it or not, the term student carries a negative connotation and so should be dropped if the objective is to win the right to carry concealed on campuses. Let somebody else rehabilitate the term, "student". Some may find this overly picky but as you pointed out negative perceptions have a big impact in this debate.