Let’s talk 2506 Caliber

[StitchJones]

Nobody stated that for initial testing (unless I missed it)? I'm simply discussing what works for me, in my rifles, from my experiences.

Your first post and your last post seem quite contradictory. As Mr. Stecker is referring to .040 increments and you're now suggesting .010 increments (assuming you're both referring to initial development). Unless that .010 is parroting Mr. Litz's suggestions on the vld bullet.

Idk, that's why I keep asking about what you're specifically doing with your load and what you find that works in your rifle (BTW, still no details) and not manufacturer sources most of us have already read.

Care to share some details of what's working for you?

 

[PBramble]

Those posts are information straight from Bergers own reference library. In it he states that .010 seemed a lot to him initially, but they have been finding over the years that the sweet spot is .040 wide, so narrow bands of testing are not really needed. Those are manufacturer's sources. If you haven't read it before, then your information search is incomplete. The load information started out as "jam the rifling and figure it out from there". I'm suggesting it isnt needed and offering the latest from the bullets manufacturer. And with a sweet spot that big, it's unlikely you need to chase lands. My results are in line with Bergers findings and verifying at distance has proven it to be effective. There was some initial adjustment in BC due to real world hits, but the calculator is pretty much spot on out to 1200 yards on targets and just over 600 on deer so far.

 

[StitchJones]

Are you even reading my replies? I literally stated much of what you're posting?

"the latest from bullet manufacturers". Umm, you realize nothing in your snippets is new, right? It's literally what many have been doing for a long time.

You quoted "jam the rifling and figure it out from there". Can you please quote the author of that post?

"And with a sweet spot that big, it's unlikely you need to chase lands."

Now, I quoted the above directly from your post as I had a pretty good laugh. I'm glad you're setting me straight here, I mean with all your first hand information you've posting and all. I'm quite taken back. I'm sure you're well aware of how these threads usually go. Some guys discussing what they're trying out and how it's working for em. Then out of nowhere, some dude shows up oddly short on first hand accounts but has plenty of Google search information on the topic and just sort of lames up the thread. Glad that isn't the case here though.

 

[PBramble]

Are you even reading my replies? I literally stated much of what you're posting?

"the latest from bullet manufacturers". Umm, you realize nothing in your snippets is new, right? It's literally what many have been doing for a long time.

You quoted "jam the rifling and figure it out from there". Can you please quote the author of that post?

"And with a sweet spot that big, it's unlikely you need to chase lands."

Now, I quoted the above directly from your post as I had a pretty good laugh. I'm glad you're setting me straight here, I mean with all your first hand information you've posting and all. I'm quite taken back. I'm sure you're well aware of how these threads usually go. Some guys discussing what they're trying out and how it's working for em. Then out of nowhere, some dude shows up oddly short on first hand accounts but has plenty of Google search information on the topic and just sort of lames up the thread. Glad that isn't the case here though.

I shoot Berger bullets only in one of my rifles and I’ve found the VLD is more seating sensitive than other bullets. Depending on your chamber throat length you may be close to or exceed magazine length once you get it shooting good.

Basically you may need to seat the bullet out to where it kisses the lands to get it to shoot good. This may make your OAL longer than your magazine. But, there’s only one way to find out.

If you email Berger they will send you load data for that bullet from their reloading Manual

Red print. And I'm stating my findings are not in agreement. Maybe you've taken a personal exception to my initial response, I'm not sure, but I find that generally information that is anecdotal is just that. Without verifiable "google searches" your information means little. I mean it's not like throat erosion is measured in tenths.

 

[Jcann]

Idk, what calibers and bullet types are you shooting?

There is another thing not mentioned in that seating depth discussion; what kind of barrel and what condition is the barrel in that is being used?

You're simply not going to find the lands on some factory barreled rifles. I've seen the bullet not even seated and still wouldn't reach the lands (actually seen this many times). Likewise, on competition rifles, you're chasing the lands as the throat erodes due to increased round count (this is amplified with the "barrel burner" cartridges) . So your load will change over the lifespan of the barrel (this can be compensated for with a barrel setback once, maybe twice depending on your barrel profile and gunsmith).

I know for a fact I cannot run that ladder test (in the pic you posted), with any of my rifles that have been built or barreled by the rifle builder I use. The guy would have a stoke seeing .130 off the lands.

I don't know why Mr. Stecker mentioned coal as that measurement isn't relative to the information he is sharing. You're not measuring the coal, you are measuring from the ogive to the lands. I load for quite a few cartridges and have no idea what the coal on them are except for two I load for the magazine length.

I do agree with him that a jammed load is a terrible idea for a field rifle for the same reason I posted.

Shooting Berger 180 grain VLD’s years ago in a 7mm Rem Mag the throat was so long (possibly due to how the chamber was cut and throat erosion) I had very little bearing surface in the neck of my reloads when kissing the lands. Naturally it was now a single shot so I traded it off to Gene Sears for my sons rifle.

Ive been shooting a 7WSM for over 10 years that GA Precision built me and have been chasing the lands due to throat erosion every year now. I don’t plan on setting the barrel back, it’s a 26” MTU contour and I want something a little more lighter.

 

[StitchJones]

Shooting Berger 180 grain VLD’s years ago in a 7mm Rem Mag the throat was so long (possibly due to how the chamber was cut and throat erosion) I had very little bearing surface in the neck of my reloads when kissing the lands. Naturally it was now a single shot so I traded it off to Gene Sears for my sons rifle.

Ive been shooting a 7WSM for over 10 years that GA Precision built me and have been chasing the lands due to throat erosion every year now. I don’t plan on setting the barrel back, it’s a 26” MTU contour and I want something a little more lighter.

My man!!

GA builds an awesome stick. I scooped up a Moon built 300 winmag years ago (when he still worked for George). Wish I still had it but I sold it when I didn't know any better.

Lol, Gene Sears got a lot of my money too, that place is great. Fooling around with a 243Ai I had built, the Defience action came from there. Its got a #10 conture 8 twist Brux barrel. It's turning out to be quite the Coyote rig.

I have to say the mtu is also my favorite barrel contour (it's a heavy pig with the 30" tubes though).

Those high b.c 7mm bullets were a hot topic several years ago. Did they ever make that 195 gn they were talking about?

 

[Jcann]

My man!!

GA builds an awesome stick. I scooped up a Moon built 300 winmag years ago (when he still worked for George). Wish I still had it but I sold it when I didn't know any better.

Lol, Gene Sears got a lot of my money too, that place is great. Fooling around with a 243Ai I had built, the Defience action came from there. Its got a #10 conture 8 twist Brux barrel. It's turning out to be quite the Coyote rig.

I have to say the mtu is also my favorite barrel contour (it's a heavy pig with the 30" tubes though).

Those high b.c 7mm bullets were a hot topic several years ago. Did they ever make that 195 gn they were talking about?

Moon built my rifle. It’s on a Winchester action and he’s a wiz with those actions. Yes, Berger makes the 195gr. With a 1:8.7 twist and a very long bullet, I can’t get the rpm via speed with the WSM case to take advantage of the high BC. Those 180’s lay the wood to everything I’ll ever hunt and they’ve been good enough out to 1,500 yards.

 

[Grendelshooter]

I'm a flat out fan of Berger bullets. I suspect many would be if they sort their bullets by weight and measurement (measure base to ogive). They seem to me, to be more consistent than the majority of manufacturers.

Typically I find the sweet spot on my "jump" (distance from ogive to lands), between .002 and .005. I did have a 6br at one time that really like a long jump for some reason (. 010) , and a 308 that liked to run jammed or touching the lands.

I run a ladder test to check powder load, neck tension, and seating depth of loads.

I do not recommend a jammed load (touching the lands) on a hunting rifle. Few things worse than pulling the bolt back to unload and dumping the power in the magazine well and realizing there is a projectile stuck in the lands.

I appreciate how consistent Bergers are.
The price? Not so much.
If I have to choose between them or Sierra I’ll grab the Berger every time (Sierra have always been disappointing in my guns. Noslers shoot the same for half the price).

 

[StitchJones]

Moon built my rifle. It’s on a Winchester action and he’s a wiz with those actions. Yes, Berger makes the 195gr. With a 1:8.7 twist and a very long bullet, I can’t get the rpm via speed with the WSM case to take advantage of the high BC. Those 180’s lay the wood to everything I’ll ever hunt and they’ve been good enough out to 1,500 yards.

I'm sure you're well aware of the following of the guy that built your rifle. Without a doubt there would be quite the line of willing buyers if you ever choose to sell it.

That's right. I remember some dudes sitting on 7 twist barrels waiting on those 195s. Iirc most of them were shooting 284s and a couple of (284) shehanes.

I imagine those 180s are straight up doing work on game. That's a pork sword sledge hammer you have there.

I was always interested in those short mag cartridges, I just never had the time to throw another iron on the fire in regards learning about them. I didn't know anyone shooting them back then.

 

[StitchJones]

I appreciate how consistent Bergers are.
The price? Not so much.
If I have to choose between them or Sierra I’ll grab the Berger every time (Sierra have always been disappointing in my guns. Noslers shoot the same for half the price).

+1 to all of that^^^^. I really like the nossler 165gn ballistic tips in my 308s (favorite plinking rounds). But they really go wonky at 600 yards. I do have and shoot a lot of those 168 gn Sierra hpbt match bullets. The only reason is because I got a really good deal on 2500 of them a while back. They are not terrible if the expectations are in the right place. That is unless you sort by weight and length a box of 500 of them (because you're going to have about 30 lots of like bullets).