Maryland man killed by police enforcing new red flag law

[Tanis143]

While the current versions of "red flag" laws are wrong, the concept is correct. Just consider the most recent incident in the Texas church. This man was known to be mentally disturbed. If there had been a way to stop him prior to him walking into that service, there would have been three lives saved. Those two innocent victims had their right to live "infringed". Again, the current versions are wrong, but virtually every news worthy shooting event has been committed by an individual that was known to have mental issues.

The man was also a felon, he shouldn't have had access to firearms in the first place. So laws did not stop that shooting. And that is the crux. Those bent on obtaining a firearm will, those bent on killing people will, and not a single law will stop them. The ONLY way to protect people is to allow them to protect themselves. Any law that seeks to prevent a person from legally obtaining a firearm or removing that firearm without due process is unconstitutional.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

The fellow at Louie's was not a felon. The shooters at the various schools were not felons. The shooter at the theater in Aurora, CO was not a felon. But in virtually every one of those incidents, there were people that knew of the unstable nature of those individuals. The red flag laws currently either in place or proposed are not viable for several reasons. However, there are people (non felons) that should not be allowed to have firearms because of mental problems. We must find the proper way to insure that folks suffering those types of problems do not obtain the implements allowing them to injure themselves or others.

 

[chuter]

We must find the proper way to insure that folks suffering those types of problems do not obtain the implements allowing them to injure themselves or others.

I agree, but so far no one has come up with a way that is not wide open for abuse. Who is going to be the judge of who shouldn't have firearms? A gun hating psychotherapist? A gun hating judge?

Improvements in our mental health systems would surely help in a general way.
I think it was the Florida school shooter who had tried repeatedly to get help but couldn't get it.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

Every system has openings for abuse. Our problems seem to be that we overlook the abuse when it happens, instead waiting until those systems are infested with abuse and then throwing up our hands crying that nothing can be done because of the potential for abuse in the proposed solution.

 

[Glocktogo]

Every system has openings for abuse. Our problems seem to be that we overlook the abuse when it happens, instead waiting until those systems are infested with abuse and then throwing up our hands crying that nothing can be done because of the potential for abuse in the proposed solution.

Have at it then, but don't expect any of us to support fatally flawed legislation like red flag laws, where abuse is a feature not a bug.

 

[Shadowrider]

Here's a case that didn't even take more than 2 weeks. Their RF law went into effect 1/1/2020.

https://www.rallyforourrights.com/c...n-he-killed-in-2017-colorado-police-shooting/

A woman called the police on her son because he said he was going to kill his brother.
Cops showed up.
Guy advanced towards cops with bigass knife.
Got shot 7 times by 2 cops.

Now mom is pissed and files for an ERPO.
Claim is utterly baseless and her claim as being a qualified person to make such claim is false on it's face.
Cop gets guns grabbed by other cops? Don't know yet.
Cop has to have an attorney.
Cop has to show up to defend himself.
Quite likely Cop can't work until he's cleared.
OBTW, the kid was shot by the cop in 2017, the law just took effect. Remember?

Anyone see anything wrong here? Without checking the facts a Colorado judge issued a temporary red flag order even though the woman and the officer do not in fact have a child together and she is not even legally eligible to request an ERPO against him.

This is the embodiment of everything wrong with red flag laws. This woman needs to be prosecuted for perjury to the fullest extent of the law. I guarantee this ***** has someone in the background bankrolling her legal expenses. This is why I will never under any circumstance support any kind of RF law....

 

[Glocktogo]

Here's a case that didn't even take more than 2 weeks. Their RF law went into effect 1/1/2020.

https://www.rallyforourrights.com/c...n-he-killed-in-2017-colorado-police-shooting/

A woman called the police on her son because he said he was going to kill his brother.
Cops showed up.
Guy advanced towards cops with bigass knife.
Got shot 7 times by 2 cops.

Now mom is pissed and files for an ERPO.
Claim is utterly baseless and her claim as being a qualified person to make such claim is false on it's face.
Cop gets guns grabbed by other cops? Don't know yet.
Cop has to have an attorney.
Cop has to show up to defend himself.
Quite likely Cop can't work until he's cleared.
OBTW, the kid was shot by the cop in 2017, the law just took effect. Remember?

Anyone see anything wrong here? Without checking the facts a Colorado judge issued a temporary red flag order even though the woman and the officer do not in fact have a child together and she is not even legally eligible to request an ERPO against him.

This is the embodiment of everything wrong with red flag laws. This woman needs to be prosecuted for perjury to the fullest extent of the law. I guarantee this ***** has someone in the background bankrolling her legal expenses. This is why I will never under any circumstance support any kind of RF law....

Agree, but the lefty legislators who voted for it don;t care about a cop or anyone else for that matter. Until THEY get red flagged, it ain't gonna make a difference.

 

[Shadowrider]

ERPOS, ERPOs for everybody! Even a Sheriff is getting in the action. You know, as a precaution just in case. Public safety and all...

In March 2019, 31-year-old David Gatton was arrested and charged with inciting destruction of life or property and retaliation against a witness or victim.

Gatton is currently in the Larimer County Jail in Fort Collins.

The sheriff’s office says it is hoping the ERPO will prevent Gatton from purchasing a firearm if he posts bail.

https://kdvr.com/2020/01/15/larimer...-inmate-accused-of-threatening-mass-shooting/

 

[DavidMcmillan]

Have at it then, but don't expect any of us to support fatally flawed legislation like red flag laws, where abuse is a feature not a bug.

Nothing gets solved until enough of us (society) get involved, stop allowing the corrupt to be reelected, and work to actually solve these problems. The concept of keeping mentally ill individuals away from anything that can injure or kill themselves or others is a sound idea. We have already passed laws to prohibit felons from obtaining firearms because of the potential misuse. ( after proper due process, etc). And there are instances of abuse in that system, but the overall result is beneficial to society. One of the principles of establishing the Constitution is the idea of "the pursuit of life, ..." Those school children had the right to not have their lives "infringed"

We all feel that the 2A is of primary importance to the Constitution, but we have to take the same stance with the entire Constitution.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

There is no sure way to keep guns out of the hands of bad actors. It simply can't be done here on Earth.

The best I can see is to keep the bad actors away from guns - or knives, bats, arrows, bricks, vehicles, or any other device capable of being used to cause harm. The bad actors can be kept from using themselves to cause harm. We have mental institutions, prisons, and execution chambers to secure these people from causing harm. Once adjudicated, if not executed, lock them up.

Anyone who slips through the cracks should be met with armed resistance. That said, obviously, some bad actors will succeed; but there will be fewer of them out in society.

So, until someone comes up with the magic pill, enact the foregoing. It isn't perfect but it is better than how things are now. Naysayers will say it'll cost too much to keep these people off the streets. But what about the cost to victims? Does anyone bother to take that into account? It'll probably be cheaper in the long run. Attrition will bring the numbers down. And, those locked up can be put to work to defray the costs. They'll just have to do it in prison or an institution.

Woody