Mcain agrees with Obama about changing stand your ground laws

[Freedom@AnyCost]

I'm a fan of having the option of putting n/a on a ballot, because all the options suck.

Romney and McCain were both horrible choices, and there's no telling if they would have been better or worse than what we have now. I think they should disband all parties, and have term limits all the way from interns up to potus. People making a living off of being a politician is what is destroying this country, and everyone suffers from it unless you are in the upper 1% that seems to have immunity. I also think all people in public office should be held more accountable to the people that pay their salary.

Ah, a breath of fresh air, someone who understands the root cause of our problems. A career politician will almost always put his own best interest above those of the people. When his best interest is advanced primarily through capitulation to the. 0015% in control of 95% of the "political resources", the current state of affairs should come as no surprise.

And your comment about Romney & McCain, absolutely right. Whether we vote in someone from the left wing of "The Party" or the right, same end result. The only difference between Bush and Obama aside from their PUBLIC stances on Abortion, gun control and war was........?????? Both perpetuate never ending wars, foment discord, advance infrastructure to erode individual Liberty while growing Government and both supported policies to saddle future generations with back breaking debt in the process.

Two sides of the same coin.

 

[WessonOil]

Ah, a breath of fresh air, someone who understands the root cause of our problems. A career politician will almost always put his own best interest above those of the people. When his best interest is advanced primarily through capitulation to the. 0015% in control of 95% of the "political resources", the current state of affairs should come as no surprise.

And your comment about Romney & McCain, absolutely right. Whether we vote in someone from the left wing of "The Party" or the right, same end result. The only difference between Bush and Obama aside from their PUBLIC stances on Abortion, gun control and war was........?????? Both perpetuate never ending wars, foment discord, advance infrastructure to erode individual Liberty while growing Government and both supported policies to saddle future generations with back breaking debt in the process.

Two sides of the same coin.

Ah yes, so good to see you back and trying to convince people that a Republican president and his appointees would be going after guns in the same way that Obama/Biden/Holder would be.

If I remember correctly, you wrote in the name of a candidate or endorsed doing so, thereby nullifying an entire ballot, and you encourage fellow non-Democrat Oklahomans to do the same.

That would turn Oklahoma into a Blue State.

And that's not a "breath of fresh air."

Thanks for not voting.

 

[GolfWhiskey]

The only difference between Bush and Obama aside from their PUBLIC stances on Abortion, gun control and war was........?????? Both perpetuate never ending wars, foment discord, advance infrastructure to erode individual Liberty while growing Government and both supported policies to saddle future generations with back breaking debt in the process.

Two sides of the same coin.

A million dead Iraqis beg to disagree with you on this one.

 

[dugsok]

they need to put him in rest home, long over due

 

[Freedom@AnyCost]

A million dead Iraqis beg to disagree with you on this one.

Obama, who answers to the same power brokers as Bush, would have done the same had that war not been over when he took over......as thousands of dead Afghan's, Pakistani's and Yemeni's would probably agree.

With that in mind, I don't think the dead Iraqis would disagree either - after seeing that he followed through with ZERO of his anti-war campaign rhetoric..

 

[GolfWhiskey]

The war in Afghanistan, Yemen, and Pakistan is against al Qaeda and its affiliate groups. Iraq was not. Also there is a striking numerical chasm between the roughly 3,000 that have been killed as a result of the drone program and continuing fighting in Afghanistan/Pakistan and the roughly 1,000,000 who died as a result of regime change in Iraq. The whole "two sides of the same coin" is pure intellectual laziness.

Also it's mind boggling that anyone could construe the President vowing to withdraw combat forces from Iraq and then doing so within his first term as "following through with ZERO of his anti-war campaign rhetoric". Remind me again how many sovereign nations this President has invaded in order to effect regime change?

 

[uncle money bags]

Obama, who answers to the same power brokers as Bush, would have done the same had that war not been over when he took over......as thousands of dead Afghan's, Pakistani's and Yemeni's would probably agree.

With that in mind, I don't think the dead Iraqis would disagree either - after seeing that he followed through with ZERO of his anti-war campaign rhetoric..

Tell me more about these power brokers. I miss reddog.

 

[dennishoddy]

A million dead Iraqis beg to disagree with you on this one.

How many did the Iranians kill?

 

[Freedom@AnyCost]

The war in Afghanistan, Yemen, and Pakistan is against al Qaeda and its affiliate groups. Iraq was not. Also there is a striking numerical chasm between the roughly 3,000 that have been killed as a result of the drone program and continuing fighting in Afghanistan/Pakistan and the roughly 1,000,000 who died as a result of regime change in Iraq. The whole "two sides of the same coin" is pure intellectual laziness.

Also it's mind boggling that anyone could construe the President vowing to withdraw combat forces from Iraq and then doing so within his first term as "following through with ZERO of his anti-war campaign rhetoric". Remind me again how many sovereign nations this President has invaded in order to effect regime change?

Some would argue Obama has started, or continued, to violate the sovereignty of Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, etc.

Personally, I would argue the premise of the question serves as little more than a red herring; creating a debate about minor details that distract from the core issues tearing this country apart - corruption, graft, voter apathy & ignorance and the resulting deficits, debt and loss of our liberties.

But I digress.....

Interesting that the argument above incorporates high side death statistics throughout the nine year Iraq war that "Obama ended" and numbers lower than estimates of Afghan civilians killed, in the first three years alone, as a result of the Afghanastan war alone (excluding civilians killed in Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, etc.) which Obama has dramatically escalated during his time in office (exactly as McCain or Romney would have done in his place).

Those intellectual inconsistencies aside, the Iraq war did end during his first term, on or about December 2011, approximately 35 months into his presidency and nine years after it (the war) began. I'm not sure war for the sake of war McCain (or even Cheyney for that matter) could/would have drug it out any longer (it had served its purpose & lost public support), but if you see that as the fulfillment of a campaign promise - let's give him ONE. And if we count universal healthcare - let's give him ONE & ONE QUARTER.

Obviously my statement of ZERO was an exageration meant to be illistrurate a point - his campaign was, for the most part, an exercise in "Bait and Switch" - think deficits, which he promised to cut, but instead has increased each year in office (like Bush before him) resulting in more than doubling our national debt since he became President.

If we were to illustrate the relative danger to our country of Al Queda vs National Debt using threats posed to a camper surrounded by two representatives from the animal kingdom, the former would be represented by a swarm of gnats, the latter by a pride of lions. And what is the solution offered by both wings of "The Party" to protect the campsite, fight the gnats by bringing in more lions whose feces attract more gnats than their "swishing tails" kill!! The debt is a bigger threat to America than the bombs are to Al Queda. The debt threatens to bring our great country to its knees while the bombs it buys make Al Queda stronger.

The last point is the scariest irony of all - the war (particularly civilian casualties) is the most powerful Al Queda recruiting tool of all.....sigh. And so, we are on a path to perpetual threat of attack, fear, war, domestic surveilance, eroding personal liberties (including 2A) and ever higher national debt. It is a snowball that just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

BinLaden's goal was to bring our country down by using terrorism to create fear to disrupt our economy bringing about Roman style economic collapse. Not sure our economic collapse is playing out exactly as he anticipated, but it is playing out none the less - we now have $17,000,000,000,000 Debt largely attributable to the effects of his attack and, ironically, our response to it.

 

[Freedom@AnyCost]

Ah yes, so good to see you back and trying to convince people that a Republican president and his appointees would be going after guns in the same way that Obama/Biden/Holder would be.

If I remember correctly, you wrote in the name of a candidate or endorsed doing so, thereby nullifying an entire ballot, and you encourage fellow non-Democrat Oklahomans to do the same.

That would turn Oklahoma into a Blue State.

And that's not a "breath of fresh air."

Thanks for not voting.

WessonOil, where on earth do you come up with this stuff? I hope you are employed in a creative field because you are nothing if not creative.

Writing in a candidate or "N/A" for a candidate, president for example, on a multiple issue / candidate ballot does not "nullify(ing) an entire ballot".

It will technically nullify "that line" on the ballot since it will not be counted as a result of OK's archaic election statutes, but the rest of the ballot will be counted just the same as if you had left "that line" on the ballot blank.

Just because your uncle's brother's sister-in-law's niece who had a great aunt that worked for the election commission told you so, doesn't make it so.

Don't take my word for it, contact the election board for yourself: [email protected]

A write-in on an OK ballot is a vote in protest of the status-quo which is responsible for the current state of affairs. If you wish to continue to fight in favor of the status-quo that is your right.

I choose to fight for something better. I may not know much, but I know that continuing to do the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is INSANE.

I know if everybody continues to "check the box" on the OK ballot there will forever and always be only two boxes to check.

I'm a prolific reader, yet I no longer subscribe to magazines outside of gun magazines.

I prefer my news to be more current.

Take this as a sign - It is time to broaden your reading base. Perhaps doing so would help avoid factual errors like the "ballot nullification" proclamation above. The world is full of information you won't find "gun magazines" alone.