Must notify law should be changed!

[MLR]

:SNIP: I will try and bring the subject up to see what they think,
:SNIP:

Some of those I talk to think that the change would be a good idea. A minority of them have said they like it the way it is. That asking for an ID tends to make people more on guard and careful in what they say around cops thereby making gathering information from unsuspecting persons. I agree with the latter that it would make fishing expeditions more difficult. I also believe that citizens should not be placed in a situation where a LEO who disguising his interrogation as a casual chat could lead to charges against a person for not notifying.

Remember, when you honestly believe that the LEO you met is just striking up a casual how is the weather conversation he may actually be trying to determine by your mannerisms if you are under the influence. He may suspect you are the person just reported to have mugged an old lady and is feeling you out. In these cases the officer will not show his hand by announcing that this is indeed a detainment until he gets the information he is after or you forcing him to by asking if you are being detained.

Should a person have to ask every LEO he meets on the street if he is being detained? I would never have made many of the friends I have now in that occupation if I had started the conversations out with that question.

Michael

 

[MLR]

David2012.
Your post is exactly what I am talking about.

Michael

 

[twoguns?]

Some of those I talk to think that the change would be a good idea. A minority of them have said they like it the way it is. That asking for an ID tends to make people more on guard and careful in what they say around cops thereby making gathering information from unsuspecting persons. I agree with the latter that it would make fishing expeditions more difficult. I also believe that citizens should not be placed in a situation where a LEO who disguising his interrogation as a casual chat could lead to charges against a person for not notifying.

Remember, when you honestly believe that the LEO you met is just striking up a casual how is the weather conversation he may actually be trying to determine by your mannerisms if you are under the influence. He may suspect you are the person just reported to have mugged an old lady and is feeling you out. In these cases the officer will not show his hand by announcing that this is indeed a detainment until he gets the information he is after or you forcing him to by asking if you are being detained.

Should a person have to ask every LEO he meets on the street if he is being detained? I would never have made many of the friends I have now in that occupation if I had started the conversations out with that question.

Michael

Agreed. Like I said ..I dont want it to become..I carry a Gun...just like you.
I dont have a problem notifying...but when/if its not necessary...it seems like the above.
Agreed 2...I certainly would prefer to have the Officers on my side...as friends

 

[twoguns?]

MLR-- here is a passage from a article on 'Police Link' that addresses what you are writting about... it is a recommended approach for police...

Police Link- "....officers should recognize that in cases where the officer has done nothing – either through words or conduct – that has implied that the citizen has no choice but to comply with the officers, the contact is consensual. Consensual contacts do not need to be supported by any level of suspicion whatsoever. In this age of mobile video recorders and body microphones, officers should approach situations in a consensual manner whenever possible. Even in cases where the officer has every intention of stopping the individual should the person refuse to cooperate, an approach that does not give away the officer’s intention, and indicates that the person must comply, would keep the contact consensual. Remember, it is how a reasonable (innocent) person would perceive the officer’s words or conduct that turns a consensual stop into a seizure. Where an officer uses a consensual approach, he or she may create a non- seizure. Anything that comes out of a consensual contact is admissible in court. [Emphisis mine.] Even a frisk can be consensual if the request to frisk is properly framed. Again, the officer’s subjective intention to conduct the frisk regardless if the person refuses consent is irrelevant. The only issue is whether the reasonable (innocent) person would feel as if they had no option but to comply with the officer’s request. The words or conduct of the officer in the approach makes all the difference."

LOL, Exactly.
Unfortunately my dress and looks seem to make me look like what im not. Loose clothes and long hair ,observing manner, could make me look suspicious. After talking to me for a bit, they can see my intents, and usually become friends.
Im not a Sheepdog....Im a Very Protective reformed watchdog...because it's My responsibility!
Besides I carry my ID right behind my gun, so no quick moves on my part!!!LOL

 

[David2012]

David2012.
Your post is exactly what I am talking about.

Michael

A lot of people outside of the law enforcement field don't realize just how hair thin the line between casual and official contacts can be.

One example... if I point to a chair and ask a person to have seat.... and he / she sits on their own.. they consented... but if they refuse to sit and I then place my hand on their arm or shoulder [no matter how lightly] and walk them over to the chair and tell him to sit down.. that is technically a use of force compelling them to do something they didn't want to do. That is an example that was taught over & over again in both my state & federal training classes.

 

[Michael Brown]

Personally, I am going to lobby the house to have a law enacted to require anyone with a ccw to inform that they are carrying when I am having a conversation with them over the internet.

Until then, I will simply hope and assume you are all carrying everywhere you can.

I don't really care how they deal with this issue as I will adapt to it however it goes, but I would offer that laws will never be 100% clear cut.

I am not suggesting that is right, but simply the way it will always be.

Michael Brown

 

[doctorjj]

Personally, I am going to lobby the house to have a law enacted to require anyone with a ccw to inform that they are carrying when I am having a conversation with them over the internet.

Until then, I will simply hope and assume you are all carrying everywhere you can.

I don't really care how they deal with this issue as I will adapt to it however it goes, but I would offer that laws will never be 100% clear cut.

I am not suggesting that is right, but simply the way it will always be.

Michael Brown

Am I being detained?

 

[Michael Brown]

Am I being detained?

Not as far as you know.

Michael Brown

 

[ExSniper]

I am armed and carrying openly right now!

 

[MLR]

Am I being detained?

Not as far as you know.

Michael Brown

I could not think of a more perfect example of the issue.

Michael