"Shotguns for Home Protection"

[CHenry]

You think that pumping is the only thing you do in a shotgun fight?

You think that an inexperienced shooter (unlike yourself who has lots of reps with them) will understand the patterning of different loads at different ranges, short stocking, combat loading, ghost loading, cruiser safe vs. cruiser ready storage? Will they ride the pump through recoil properly like you do or will they short stroke the pump and have an empty chamber? Will grandma smoothly operate the pump like you or I or will she jam the pump by racking it at some funny angle because her short arms have trouble reaching?

No, and some folks cant drive a car for crap.
Reminds me of the last episode of Tulsa King, Stallone was using a pump in a bar shootout scene and every time he pumped it, it looked like work for him, it was pointing up and all around with every pump. I found that amusing.

 

[CHenry]

My Model 12, 2nd on the right (obviously) Love this pump.

 

[streak]

I have to point out that an inexperienced shooter with many semi auto’s have failures as well not knowing how to work or close the bolt as well as jams from not shouldering the gun and doing whatever the shogun equivalent to limp wristing is

 

[CHenry]

I have to point out that an inexperienced shooter with many semi auto’s have failures as well not knowing how to work or close the bolt as well as jams from not shouldering the gun and doing whatever the shogun equivalent to limp wristing is

Yep, seen it many times.

 

[saddlebum]

seems like when I was a kid all my friends spent time hunting and shooting it was second nature for us. I spent so much time with and 870 that pumping after the shot was automatic. I also saw a video of a cop in gunfight squeezing the hell out the trigger of a 1911 but never disengaging the safety. just buying a gun and thinking you'll be able to run it under pressure without lots of practice is foolish

 

[retrieverman]

Does anyone ever stop to think... If rifles chambered in .223/5.56 are so prone to overpenetration thru buildings and people and such, why does pretty much every city cop in the country have such a dangerous gun in their patrol car for use in urban environments?

The department I worked for in a Denver suburb started using ARs in lieu of shotguns in the early 80s. Our issue ammo for the AR was Federal American Eagle 55gr FMJ.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness of a 12ga will full power defensive loads. I just think there are better alternatives out there. Those alternatives might not be as devastating as a 12ga loaded with 00B but they have many other features that make them a good option for the majority of people that might want to use them.

Difference is the local DA will not try to file charges if a cop misses and the bullet passes thru a wall killing a child. They will call it an accident and settle with the family. Plus the cops have at least some training. The vast majority of people trying to protect their home are lucky to know which end the bullet comes out. We at least try to learn and tell others to get some training but most do not and may never even fire the $2000 AR they bought.

Rick is 100% right. If cops f-up and kill a bystander, they’ll probably get a few weeks on paid leave, the city will settle with the victim’s family, and the cop is back out on the street to potentially screw up again.

If “I” shoot through a criminal and hit a bystander, the scenario is going to play out totally different. The same cop that killed a bystander in another engagement could potentially be leading me to jail in handcuffs, and I will more than likely end up in prison AND financially ruined.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

That's nonsense and RickN is NOT 100% right. There is story after story after story of officers, cities and departments being sued for wrongful deaths related to police accidentally shooting bystanders and others. It makes for a good talking point to say they just get away with it without repercussions...except it simply isn't true. That's not to say it's never happened...but it's the exception and not the rule. (Just wanted to make it clear that I didn't say it never happens.)

I can tell you from experience sitting for 7 days in federal district court after being sued for $17M over something I didn't even do...and I didn't even shoot anyone. It's not fun. Some little ********* didn't want to get in trouble with mommy and daddy (both convicted felons, BTW, with a history of trying to sue police) so he made up a story. It took two years of my life away worrying over what might happen to me if a jury bought into his sob story and lies. So, yeah...I'm gonna call bulls**t on that. Because I've been there.

I've also been in a fight on the side of highway in the middle of the night after being stabbed in the face with a screwdriver and not shooting the a-hole that I should've shot because the last deputy to shoot someone (quite justified) was raked over the coals by the department. So instead I had to risk my life and beat the dogs**t outta the guy with an ASP until he gave up, finally. Oh...he plead to Second Degree Assault on a Peace Officer and was sentenced to 30 days in jail and probation. He was arrested while he was out on bond in my case for possession of cocaine. He plead guilty and got 90 days jail for that...while he was serving his 30 day sentence for stabbing me.

 

[magna19]

Does anyone ever stop to think... If rifles chambered in .223/5.56 are so prone to overpenetration thru buildings and people and such, why does pretty much every city cop in the country have such a dangerous gun in their patrol car for use in urban environments?

The department I worked for in a Denver suburb started using ARs in lieu of shotguns in the early 80s. Our issue ammo for the AR was Federal American Eagle 55gr FMJ.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness of a 12ga will full power defensive loads. I just think there are better alternatives out there. Those alternatives might not be as devastating as a 12ga loaded with 00B but they have many other features that make them a good option for the majority of people that might want to use them.

Home defense and cops facing a far broader range of situations are different if you stop and think. Mostly because they are more likely needing to continue at longer ranges with more capacity. Thats why they carry 5.56 ar platform. The shotgun for home defense is also my critter getter day/night around the house. Also if you need to shoot your AR for home defense at ranges longer than shotgun ranges your more likely to end up on a possible criminal charge. Just another good reason a shotgun is a good home defense weapon.

 

[Firpo]

I just think there are better alternatives out there.

A better statement is “the best alternative depends on the individual”. We all are more comfortable operating different platforms and for me I can run a pump-gun without thinking and half asleep, maybe even 3/4 asleep . I was never in the military (they’re sticklers about having two kidneys) and my first AR was purchased just a couple years ago (I’m 54). I find an AR awkward to operate and manipulate and there’s nothing intuitive about its function to me. I’m much better off using a shotgun to which I’m completely familiar and comfortable.

Maybe we forget that poor example and focus on the fact that pump guns have the most complicated manual of arms of any modern fighting gun.

So complicated it can be operated reliably by a 12 year old. Got my first BPS 12 gauge the Christmas of my 12th year and haven’t used anything but a pump ever since, shooting countless rounds of skeet and trap. Yes it’s just my opinion but that’s an opinion backed by 4 decades of experience. You guys putting down the use of pump shotguns for SD are full of hot air, beans ir possibly both.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

A laughing emoji is an excellent rebuttal to a reasoned argument. I guess if that's all you got, though...