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JJEH
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Agree. Afterwards they are always people who know better and what should had be done...
Fact is, I wasn't there. I cannot tell what I would have done. Too many coices and variables like already mentioned.
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Agree. Afterwards they are always people who know better and what should had be done...
Fact is, I wasn't there. I cannot tell what I would have done. Too many coices and variables like already mentioned.
I have never been shot at but my son has.
He described 2 basic reactions among the soldiers:
1. Fetal behind cover and an inability to return fire.
2. Anger with a motivation to kill. They shot back.
He talked about people that surprised him with both responses. These were all soldiers that were well trained.
He described 2 basic reactions among the soldiers:
1. Fetal behind cover and an inability to return fire.
2. Anger with a motivation to kill. They shot back.
He talked about people that surprised him with both responses. These were all soldiers that were well trained.
I love it around here, people smell blood in the water and they attack, I'm not surprised by some, but others, I am. Way to give constructive criticism, bravo.
So nobody knows how they would have reacted, knowing what we know now, does it give anymore insight as to how you would have reacted? Or do this thread actually mean nothing but hot air? Someone said if you were sitting in the middle you would be trapped, are you going to sit in the middle of the theater next time you go? If someone walks out the back exit, are not going to give it a second thought? If someone were to come in start shooting at people and everyone is crowding the exit doors, are you going to run to or from the crowd? Next time your at the theater, are you going to sit next to someone with red hair? I know I'm not the only one that goes into a place that might sit closer to an exit, or in the back where I can see more of what's going on, but sometimes I forget and don't pay attention probably more often than not. I've been in some situations, far, far... far from went on in CO, nothing that put my life in danger, times I was comfortable with my reaction, others I was not. It seems the ones I had to make a split second decision were the ones I was most comfortable with, I didn't cower down. Again, they weren't life or death, would I react differently putting a gun in any of those scenarios? I don't know, I don't have enough life experience to make an informed decision. I do know, when I put on my CCW the last couple of days, I wore it with a little more conviction.
Now someone can pick away at what I wrote and I'll join 10seconds.
So nobody knows how they would have reacted, knowing what we know now, does it give anymore insight as to how you would have reacted? Or do this thread actually mean nothing but hot air? Someone said if you were sitting in the middle you would be trapped, are you going to sit in the middle of the theater next time you go? If someone walks out the back exit, are not going to give it a second thought? If someone were to come in start shooting at people and everyone is crowding the exit doors, are you going to run to or from the crowd? Next time your at the theater, are you going to sit next to someone with red hair? I know I'm not the only one that goes into a place that might sit closer to an exit, or in the back where I can see more of what's going on, but sometimes I forget and don't pay attention probably more often than not. I've been in some situations, far, far... far from went on in CO, nothing that put my life in danger, times I was comfortable with my reaction, others I was not. It seems the ones I had to make a split second decision were the ones I was most comfortable with, I didn't cower down. Again, they weren't life or death, would I react differently putting a gun in any of those scenarios? I don't know, I don't have enough life experience to make an informed decision. I do know, when I put on my CCW the last couple of days, I wore it with a little more conviction.
Now someone can pick away at what I wrote and I'll join 10seconds.
I agree SR. Unfortunately, some of the nattering naybobs of negativity around here apparently have psychology doctorates and say it's all mental masturbation. 
As bulboy has directed; and out of respect for all; I am not attacking the poster, but I am challenging some of the items in the post. I'm sure 10seconds is a fine guy; brave, loyal, selfless... and only trying to initiate intelliegent discussion in reference to this horrific event:
Sadly, no heros were present in the movie theater: Really? How do you know? Were you there or is this just your opinion? No heroes at all?
If they were, they could have taken this guy down without carrying a gun.: Really? How you figure that?
A few people charge this guy (untrained, weighted down, kid) and get him on the ground: Really? How you gonna get that organized quickly enough in a dark movie theater once the SHTF?
You can bet he wont be expecting it. : Really? Again; how do you know that? (I once heard that in certain branches of the Services, they teach that the best defense against an ambush is to attack it). Therefore, if I were the BG, I might think that maybe; just maybe, someone might try to take me down.
I really think that ANY resistance could have stopped this pretty quick, whether you were carrying or not, had too small a caliber or not, etc; Really? ANY resistance? I am having a hard time with this...
The mentality that was present thought only of self preservation and not of others.: Really? Isn't that a litle bit of harsh, unfounded judgement?
I will be increasing my purchases of hi-cap mags, and stashing a few stripped lowers and part kits too; Really? I heard that you can get good deals at Superdave65's gun shows; but am not quite sure what good stripped lowers and parts kits that you intend to squirrel away is gonna do in a situation like this one...
My glock 30 is my carry, so I am good there, and I plan to start using the 13 round Glock 21 mags instead for an extra 6 rounds: Really? A G30 mag holds 10; a G21 mag holds 13. 13-10=3. Now; a G36 mag holds 6. 13-6=7. A G36 with a full mag (6)and one in the chamber =7 rounds available. Compare that 7 to the capacity of a G21 mag; which we learned a moment ago; holds 13 rounds. 13-7=6. So; tell me please; is it a G30 (10 round mag + 1 in the tube) that you have as a carry gun or is it the G36 (6 round mag =1 in the tube?) Why would you want to start using G21 mags?
If the whole first row of the theater rushed this guy when he was throwing his tear gas or whatever, he would have not been able to get a shot off. Really? I can see it now; You're in the theater; everyone's attention is focused on the screen, or on their date's boobs, or their popcorn or whatever. All of a sudden, some dude in a wierd suit with a gas mask comes in and throws tear gas (or whatever) and you are supposed to do what? Say in a loud,authoritative voice: "First Row! Prepare to rush! Rush!" How many are gonna leap up and charge the dude? Is Grandma gonna charge too? Little kids?
I think that's enough to go with for now...
Mr. 10 seconds; do you care to respond?
That was great, except for the french crap at the bottom, totally ruined it for me.
What you talkin' about Willis?
The police responded to the incident in 90 SECONDS. One of the officers that quickly arrested him when he surrendered, basically took him down because he noticed his gear was not quite SWAT style gear (?).
Based on that, the incident then had to only have lasted about 50-70 seconds. At what point during the incident do you think his assault rifle w/100 rnd drum magazine jammed? ( Have they said how many rounds were still in the drum mag?). Then. How quick did he change weapons and start shooting again? 20,30,40 seconds into it?
So, our 'hero', although totally freaked out and in the dark and coughing from the tear gas, would have had from about 2 to 40 SECONDS to disarm and take down an inexperienced but highly intelliegent man dressed in full on tact gear with 4 weapons and literally no training with those weapons (he would have been denied membership anyways for acting really freaky if he had actually showed up to the range he applied at for his orientation class), but who still managed to kill 13, wound 9 critically, and injure tens of others. All in about 70 seconds.
How many people do you think that are walking around daily in our society have not been in the military much less seen action in a war or have been some type of law enforcement officer which would have required them to have trained extensively in weapons and disarming conflict? No matter they may be current boxers, ex-boxers (myself included, as well as martial arts), martial artists, MMA fighters, etc.
And how about us concealed carry holders who are not ex military or ex LEO? I'm pretty sure a fairly high number of permit holders thought about it long and hard and then took a class, sent in their paperwork, bought a gun, and then regularly practice shooting at a range at paper men. They mostly have only one intention- 'trying' to help save themselves or their family members lives with their weapons in most likely a one on one altercation at their home or over their car, etc. They arent even thinking about what just happened in Colorado of EVER happening to them. I don't know about many of you but I have taken the CC class twice, in 2 different states, and while we did discuss in length who we 'may' be going up against if we ever HAVE to pull and then USE our weapons, we definitely did not discuss much less train to be able to go up against some nut who just threw a couple of smoke bombs in a dark movie theatre while standing/blocking the door to the outside exit (leaving only the two interior theatre exits for an entire auditorium of super freaked out and scared people to try and run to ALL AT THE SAME TIME), then quickly, while dressed in tactical helmet/vest/neck and groin protector armed with an assault rifle, a 12ggshotgun, and one or two Glocks- the nut then starts shooting and mowing people down as if it was a weedeater cutting grass.
Whatever.
Ive been there. I was involved in a mass shooting incident once. Im a professional musician so Ive played in about a thousand bars. I was back home in California one night leaving a bar I had just played at. We were in the parking lot when a guy who had got kicked out of the place earlier in the night was in the parking lot and just started shooting at any one he could aim at. It was many years ago but I will never forget it. While I managed to not get shot a friend next to me did and I managed to get him down and with a few other friends we made it to my car and out of there and sped off on the way to the hospital. Our friend was only shot in the upper arm but it still required retreating and speeding to the hospital in my 79' Trans Am. About 20 other people who got shot ended up at the hospital later. No one died that night, thank God. But they could have and I could have. Concealed carry wasnt legal then. I owned guns, but they were at home. You wouldnt have had one in a bar anyways. Still, even if I had had a gun ( I did some times carry a Beretta 92F in my vehicles that my dad gave me to carry around with me), plus being an ex-boxer and martial artist, I am not ex military or an ex cop ( my dad was a Marine vet, MP, and then after the Marines an ex LEO. I was also a grandson, brother, and nephew of military veterans and LEOs)- my responsibility was to getting myself and friends safely out of there and the injured friend to the hospital. I honestly didnt think of anything but getting me and my friends out of there. It probably didnt even register in my brain what had just happened until we were 10 miles away at the hospital and the ambulances were bringing in the other shot people and tons of other people start showing up, cops asking us all questions, etc, etc.
Based on that, the incident then had to only have lasted about 50-70 seconds. At what point during the incident do you think his assault rifle w/100 rnd drum magazine jammed? ( Have they said how many rounds were still in the drum mag?). Then. How quick did he change weapons and start shooting again? 20,30,40 seconds into it?
So, our 'hero', although totally freaked out and in the dark and coughing from the tear gas, would have had from about 2 to 40 SECONDS to disarm and take down an inexperienced but highly intelliegent man dressed in full on tact gear with 4 weapons and literally no training with those weapons (he would have been denied membership anyways for acting really freaky if he had actually showed up to the range he applied at for his orientation class), but who still managed to kill 13, wound 9 critically, and injure tens of others. All in about 70 seconds.
How many people do you think that are walking around daily in our society have not been in the military much less seen action in a war or have been some type of law enforcement officer which would have required them to have trained extensively in weapons and disarming conflict? No matter they may be current boxers, ex-boxers (myself included, as well as martial arts), martial artists, MMA fighters, etc.
And how about us concealed carry holders who are not ex military or ex LEO? I'm pretty sure a fairly high number of permit holders thought about it long and hard and then took a class, sent in their paperwork, bought a gun, and then regularly practice shooting at a range at paper men. They mostly have only one intention- 'trying' to help save themselves or their family members lives with their weapons in most likely a one on one altercation at their home or over their car, etc. They arent even thinking about what just happened in Colorado of EVER happening to them. I don't know about many of you but I have taken the CC class twice, in 2 different states, and while we did discuss in length who we 'may' be going up against if we ever HAVE to pull and then USE our weapons, we definitely did not discuss much less train to be able to go up against some nut who just threw a couple of smoke bombs in a dark movie theatre while standing/blocking the door to the outside exit (leaving only the two interior theatre exits for an entire auditorium of super freaked out and scared people to try and run to ALL AT THE SAME TIME), then quickly, while dressed in tactical helmet/vest/neck and groin protector armed with an assault rifle, a 12ggshotgun, and one or two Glocks- the nut then starts shooting and mowing people down as if it was a weedeater cutting grass.
Whatever.
Ive been there. I was involved in a mass shooting incident once. Im a professional musician so Ive played in about a thousand bars. I was back home in California one night leaving a bar I had just played at. We were in the parking lot when a guy who had got kicked out of the place earlier in the night was in the parking lot and just started shooting at any one he could aim at. It was many years ago but I will never forget it. While I managed to not get shot a friend next to me did and I managed to get him down and with a few other friends we made it to my car and out of there and sped off on the way to the hospital. Our friend was only shot in the upper arm but it still required retreating and speeding to the hospital in my 79' Trans Am. About 20 other people who got shot ended up at the hospital later. No one died that night, thank God. But they could have and I could have. Concealed carry wasnt legal then. I owned guns, but they were at home. You wouldnt have had one in a bar anyways. Still, even if I had had a gun ( I did some times carry a Beretta 92F in my vehicles that my dad gave me to carry around with me), plus being an ex-boxer and martial artist, I am not ex military or an ex cop ( my dad was a Marine vet, MP, and then after the Marines an ex LEO. I was also a grandson, brother, and nephew of military veterans and LEOs)- my responsibility was to getting myself and friends safely out of there and the injured friend to the hospital. I honestly didnt think of anything but getting me and my friends out of there. It probably didnt even register in my brain what had just happened until we were 10 miles away at the hospital and the ambulances were bringing in the other shot people and tons of other people start showing up, cops asking us all questions, etc, etc.
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This would be my observation to this question:
I have not heard that the shooter had any military background, therefore, I do not imagine he had any thought that anyone would put up a fight from the captive audience, he did have the body armour, but aside from the red hair, I think he was just going for style points, not an ambush, he would have picked somewhere else if he did. I think that as cool and collected as he sounded with the police right after the incident, without any kind of background in combat, I would lean toward the idea that once he entered the exit door adrenaline and tunnel vision would have taken over. I don't know where the shooter was during the whole ordeal, if he would have stepped up away from the exit door and toward the people for, perhaps there could have been an opening to attack from the side. Also, he had a gas mask on which may offer a blind spot. Of course, being in the audience, I would have no idea as to whether a shooter had any military training.
Those are my thoughts on what some trained person might do, me? I'm pretty sure I would have tried to get away from the crowd and lay low if the tear gas eating me up.
Until someone starts shooting at you, I don't care what you think you will do, you don't know.
I've been shot at a couple of times in combat situations, but I entered those situations knowing what was going on (a domestic dispute & an armed burglary). I knew there was a possibility of being shot at, and I'm telling you, it'll scare the **** out of you, even when you expect it. There are stories a plenty of heroism coming out of this tragedy now. Lots of 'em.
I think it is very disrespectful to those that gave their lives to protect the lives of others for this conversation to even be taking place. I'd never wish anything bad to happen to anyone one, but if any of you Billy Badasses ever get a pistol barrel stuck in your ear by a pissed off, flipped out bad guy, and live thru it, I'll help you wash your underwear. Cause I'm a nice guy like that, and I just don't think you know what the hell you're talking about. I always get a kick out of this type of talk. Makes me chuckle.
I've been shot at a couple of times in combat situations, but I entered those situations knowing what was going on (a domestic dispute & an armed burglary). I knew there was a possibility of being shot at, and I'm telling you, it'll scare the **** out of you, even when you expect it. There are stories a plenty of heroism coming out of this tragedy now. Lots of 'em.
I think it is very disrespectful to those that gave their lives to protect the lives of others for this conversation to even be taking place. I'd never wish anything bad to happen to anyone one, but if any of you Billy Badasses ever get a pistol barrel stuck in your ear by a pissed off, flipped out bad guy, and live thru it, I'll help you wash your underwear. Cause I'm a nice guy like that, and I just don't think you know what the hell you're talking about. I always get a kick out of this type of talk. Makes me chuckle.
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