Jordanian pilot burned alive

[SMS]

This is an ideological struggle for civilization. Call that statement melodramatic if you wish. Our side is shackled by political correctness and an unwillingness to make the "hard decisions." The other side has no such handicaps.

I understand this sentiment as much as the one TedKennedy is espousing. I know how we would execute his version.

Tell me what hard decisions we could/would/should make and how we would pull it off? We going to nuke some cities full of non-combatants? Are we going to label all muslims, and residents of muslim lands as justifiable targets just like Bin Laden claimed Americans were in his letter to America? (Serious question, not baiting or trolling. I'd like to discuss it and follow the logic to a point that gets us to a real victory without turning us into the same type of monster they are).

I'm no genius, but I do know that what we've been doing (and what I directly participated in for a few years) is not working. It's been 14 years, immeasurable blood and treasure, and Al Qaeda is still kicking. The Taliban is ready to move back into Kabul once we leave, Iraq has become a puppet state of the real enemy in that region and ISIS is burning, killing, raping and recruiting like crazy.

Throwing good money after bad doesn't sound like a recipe for success/victory to me.

 

[Dave70968]

This is an ideological struggle for civilization. Call that statement melodramatic if you wish. Our side is shackled by political correctness and an unwillingness to make the "hard decisions." The other side has no such handicaps.

While true, the trouble is that making the "hard decisions" means giving up what makes us civilized. Can we really say we defeated them if we become them?

 

[Glocktogo]

Uh, the same way we catch and punish other criminals? Can we do that?

Sure! You just have to be willing to accept the occasional 9/11, Ft. Hood, Boston Marathon bombing, etc. But hey, you're good with that, right? After all, it's not YOUR grandkids!

Keep in mind, you also have to be good with $8 a gallon gas, oil embargoes, fuel shortages, etc. The reason Syria and Iraq are more important to them that Libya and Egypt is the amount of natural resources they can control. After all, they've got plenty of time to assimilate the rest of the region once they control the oil.

Long interview with Lindsay Graham on CNN yesterday.
He says we need to put 10,000 troops on the ground to defeat ISIS, and we also have to topple Assad from power or we are "wasting our time".

Sounded like he wanted to get more seriously involved in Ukraine too.

Neocons are making a lot of noise lately.
I'm surprised anyone even listens to them anymore given their dismal record of failed predictions and promises.

Lindsay Graham is a bloviating idiot. Putting 10K troops on the ground and toppling Assad is madness. These dumbasses like Graham and McCain want Assad gone not because he's a dictator, but because he's not OUR dictator. They want him gone so they can facilitate a pipeline across Syria to Europe, in order to cut Putin's throat.

In the meantime, they want to mire us in eternal "limited" conflict and prop up the military industrial complex. No. We need to annihilate IS to re-stabilize the region and reduce the future risk here at home. Sending in OUR troops isn't the way to do that.

I understand this sentiment as much as the one TedKennedy is espousing. I know how we would execute his version.

Tell me what hard decisions we could/would/should make and how we would pull it off? We going to nuke some cities full of non-combatants? Are we going to label all muslims, and residents of muslim lands as justifiable targets just like Bin Laden claimed Americans were in his letter to America? (Serious question, not baiting or trolling. I'd like to discuss it and follow the logic to a point that gets us to a real victory without turning us into the same type of monster they are).

I'm no genius, but I do know that what we've been doing (and what I directly participated in for a few years) is not working. It's been 14 years, immeasurable blood and treasure, and Al Qaeda is still kicking. The Taliban is ready to move back into Kabul once we leave, Iraq has become a puppet state of the real enemy in that region and ISIS is burning, killing, raping and recruiting like crazy.

Throwing good money after bad doesn't sound like a recipe for success/victory to me.

I've been going around and around with a Muslim apologist on another forum about this. He's full of excuses for the Muslim community worldwide, but has zero answers. Simply put, it's time for them to fish or cut bait. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's say 90% of the world's 1.6 BILLION Muslims reject IS and their savagery. Let's say they truly believe that IS does not represent Islam in principle or practice. That what they're doing is "intolerable". To wit:

The Organization Of Islamic Cooperation: The Islamic State Has "Nothing To Do With Islam," Has Committed Crimes "That Cannot Be Tolerated." As the Vatican's internal news source reported, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which represents 1.4 billion Muslims in 57 countries around the world, condemned the Islamic State's persecution of of Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq, saying the "forced deportation under the threat of execution" is a "crime that cannot be tolerated."

If so, what we have here is approximately 0.000040625 of the world’s Muslim population holding the rest hostage. That means the other 99.9959375 percent of Muslims are either so weak willed and pathetic, inept or just plain uncaring to stop them. So what do you think is the most likely explanation? That they can’t won’t or just don’t care? It’s not Christians they’re predominantly killing right now.

Sorry, but I’m not buying that. The most plausible explanation is that either through cultural or religious pretext, they accept sectarian violence and savage brutality more than they accept non-Muslim intervention. It’s more important to them that this be allowed to continue than to admit any problems within their religion and culture.

Simply put, when we rolled in to kill the bad guys, if that 90+ percent of the “peaceful Muslim population”, REALLY wanted these evil savages eliminated, it would happen very quickly and we’d be given hero’s parades throughout the lands. But that’s not what happens. They dig in, fight us tooth and nail and slaughter the relatively small percentage of cooperating indigenous residents the minute we turn our backs (and we ALWAYS turn our backs eventually).

This is their problem. Unfortunately it’s gotten completely out of hand and it threatens our allies and our citizens. Yet without their overwhelming acceptance and support of our efforts, we will continue to fail. It’s come down to a war of ideals, and quite frankly, our CiC is to weak and pathetic to adequately take control of the debate and frame the terms of the global conversation. As a result, we have almost no chance whatsoever to dictate the outcome of the battle.

So we should not place any more of our men in harm’s way than absolutely necessary. That doesn’t mean we should do absolutely nothing though. These are sub-human animals who very much need killing. Turning a blind eye when we have the power to respond is a cowardly act. That’s why I say we should give generously from the surplus of MOAB’s, FAE’s, cluster munitions and various other great implements of war at our disposal. Let’s load up those B-52’s and party like it’s 1972. If we give until it hurts, then give just a little bit more, we can send a VERY effective message. It’s the least we should do IMO.

 

[Okie4570]

I am NOT for sending ground troops.

With that said. Remember how loudly the drums beat after 9/11. How angry we all felt. How we were prepared to do whatever it took to bring the vicious animals to justice.

I'm not so sure we still have those drums................if so, I'm not so sure they'll be heard.........if they're heard, they be mistaken for some other noise.

 

[druryj]

But if you fail to exterminate them all, the history books and movies will portray you as the bad guy, bent on genocide.

And since the battle is over there, maybe we should let those folks settle it.

Ahhh yes; history books. History, for the most part, is written by the winner.

 

[Lurker66]

Just push play on the video...very hard to watch.

http://www.clarin.com/mundo/Estado-...rafica-video-piloto-jordano_0_1297670448.html

This video is fake fake fake. Yall need to watch the video and pay the Fugg attention. I've seen HSchoolers make a better video. At best it B movie material. Filmed in front of a green screen, fake flames, so obvious. Yall fall for this crap??? It's funny.

 

[SM Rider]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...s-aqap-planning-11-anniversary-attack-abroad/

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/12/ramzan-kadyrov-offers-putin-his-own.html

Muslims come in different varieties. ISIS/ISIL/DAASH are Wahabi Muslims and are funded by Saudi Arabia & Qatar. They are recieving material support (got to admire all those new uniforms and masks) through Turkey in addition to the US military "accidentally" dropping supplies in areas they control. Had the US not meddled in the affairs of Assad they would have been taken care of before they grew in size. In this regard, Syria and Iran have the same anti-ISIS agenda the US purports to have (I don't see this as being the actual case). But Assad and Iran (and Russia) are enemies of the US according to Neo-Cons like McCain and Graham. It's all a farce.

 

[Hobbes]

Jordanian armed forces release their first video of their air strikes.
It appears they went out of their way to make female members of the armed forces more visible in the video as a way of insulting ISIS.

 

[jfssms]

Cool! Thanks for the post!!!

 

[Shadowrider]

If so, what we have here is approximately 0.000040625 of the world’s Muslim population holding the rest hostage. That means the other 99.9959375 percent of Muslims are either so weak willed and pathetic, inept or just plain uncaring to stop them. So what do you think is the most likely explanation? That they can’t won’t or just don’t care? It’s not Christians they’re predominantly killing right now.

Sorry, but I’m not buying that. The most plausible explanation is that either through cultural or religious pretext, they accept sectarian violence and savage brutality more than they accept non-Muslim intervention. It’s more important to them that this be allowed to continue than to admit any problems within their religion and culture.

Simply put, when we rolled in to kill the bad guys, if that 90+ percent of the “peaceful Muslim population”, REALLY wanted these evil savages eliminated, it would happen very quickly and we’d be given hero’s parades throughout the lands. But that’s not what happens. They dig in, fight us tooth and nail and slaughter the relatively small percentage of cooperating indigenous residents the minute we turn our backs (and we ALWAYS turn our backs eventually).

This is their problem. Unfortunately it’s gotten completely out of hand and it threatens our allies and our citizens. Yet without their overwhelming acceptance and support of our efforts, we will continue to fail. It’s come down to a war of ideals, and quite frankly, our CiC is to weak and pathetic to adequately take control of the debate and frame the terms of the global conversation. As a result, we have almost no chance whatsoever to dictate the outcome of the battle.

So we should not place any more of our men in harm’s way than absolutely necessary. That doesn’t mean we should do absolutely nothing though. These are sub-human animals who very much need killing. Turning a blind eye when we have the power to respond is a cowardly act. That’s why I say we should give generously from the surplus of MOAB’s, FAE’s, cluster munitions and various other great implements of war at our disposal. Let’s load up those B-52’s and party like it’s 1972. If we give until it hurts, then give just a little bit more, we can send a VERY effective message. It’s the least we should do IMO.

Post of the year right here! This is the short term answer to get things under control and mete out a little justice. Start the raining on Iran.

For the long term we kill two birds with one stone. We drill, baby drill like a mofo. We build, baby build like a mofo some shipping terminals scattered across 3 coasts and pipelines. We assure the world that we can supply their energy for periods as they may need to kick out these batshit crazy zealots and develop or procure their own as they see fit. We get total energy independence as icing. Yes we do have it and no it need not take 50 years to develop, if we really wanted to do it, we could in probably about 10 years.