Not really. A machine gun is defined by the NFA. They have a lot of room to classify things, but machine guns are pretty well defined.
Not really. A machine gun is defined by the NFA. They have a lot of room to classify things, but machine guns are pretty well defined.
1 & 2) If someone is so dangerous to society that we can justify removing ALL freedom, then rights infringement is not "common sense" it's a logical requirement. However, I am also of the opinion that once such a person's freedom is restored, so should their rights. If a person is so dangerous that we feel we can never restore their full rights, then likely their freedom shouldn't be restored either.
3) As far as I know, it is not illegal to drink and bear arms. It is illegal - IN THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA (not a Fed.gov rule) - to carry in an establishment that makes the majority of it's money off alcohol.
I don't see any infringement.
I don’t disagree with you comments here, 1&2) I honestly think we have a poor correctoinal system wherein once a person becomes a felon they drastically reduce their odds of holding meaningful employment. And indirectly you are punished for your mistake long after the debt to the state / feds / society has been paid. I believe it’s why many people return to crime because they have a permanent black mark after prison a stigma.
3) limiting people’s right keep and bear arms on their person whirl they are drinking is a form of infringement.
The broader point I was making is at that point time when we agreed that any law at all could be passed that didn’t adhere to the strict adherence to “have the right to keep and bear arms” it was at that point that the battle war was lost, we will have hundreds of battles over the next century but it all falls back to the one point.
The same could be said for the 1st Amendmant, it’s under attack from the “hate speech” crowd, and also laws concerning obscenity, libel , slander, incitement ...etc . Those laws all infringe on the right to the compete unabridged freedom of speech using the princiboe of unfair harm they can cause. But it doesn’t change the fact that they do alter the strict interpretation of the first ammendmant and they are widely accepted. Freedom of religion is now infringed try refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding and you get crushed.
Once you accept laws that adjust strict interpretation of the constitutional ammendmants, you have already opened Pandora’s box and the slippery slope will almost always win.
I think to many people want to make a simple statement and say “we simply need a return to common decency”, which is 100% accurate but short of a miracle I don’t see this ever happening. When I say common decency in my mind it’s the old fashioned yes ma’am, no sir, respect for other people and their property, etc .......what many of us likely grew up with in Oklahoma. But common decency may have different meanings to different people.
Sorry, my point on 3) should have been that yes, Oklahoma infringes the 2A - by not allowing me to carry to a "bar". However they do NOT restrict my right to carry while drinking in general as you keep saying. And that it is not a Federal restriction. I disagree with OK's infringement. I'm not sure where I lost my train of thought when writing my initial post.
As far as your first amendment example. That's been discussed ad nauseam. The right to free speech does not mean I have the right to say whatever whenever I want. Just as I can't use my rightfully owned arms however and whenever I want.
Are there infringements on many rights? Yes. Does that mean I agree with them? NO! You keep bringing up examples of existing infringements as if that means we are OK with them.
There comes a time when it may be necessary to forfeit a battle in order to win the war.
Just a thought.
That tactic does not work in politics. You might have to retreat and regroup, but you never forfeit ground you have gained in politics. The battle to regain lost ground is the hardest of all. Your forfeit demonstrates a lack of resolve to your opposition. Stand your ground.
Woody
The way I see it is that shooters want full auto capability. That’s not going away. If the military and police can have the fun toys, then I should be able to too. Full auto is expensive, yet fun. I owned machine guns for a few years till I ran out of places to shoot them. The NFA is prohibitive and today’s prices in machine guns are through the roof and have been since 1986 when new manufacture of full auto was banned. The bumpfire is a way for the average gun owner to imitate a full auto firearm as close as they can and not (yet) be illegal.
When the bumpfire first came out, it went under review by the ATF and they said “no”. A year or two later, their decision was reversed and they hit the shelves. As usual, someone comes along and ruins a good thing.
I see tannerite to be in their scope next. Too many people using 50-100 pounds of the stuff at a time blowing stuff up making YouTube videos and attracting attention. Typical behavior. If one pound is this much fun, what can we do with a hundred pounds of it?
When the bumpfire first came out, it went under review by the ATF and they said “no”. A year or two later, their decision was reversed and they hit the shelves. As usual, someone comes along and ruins a good thing.
I see tannerite to be in their scope next. Too many people using 50-100 pounds of the stuff at a time blowing stuff up making YouTube videos and attracting attention. Typical behavior. If one pound is this much fun, what can we do with a hundred pounds of it?
Because this is OSA
I am saying once the infringements were allowed and “accepted” and we strayed from the strict interpretation of the constitution (1865, 1927, 1934, etc) the war was lost and the slippery slope began All the battles we fight from here to eternity are just to delay the inevitable, unless something truly extraordinary happens on so many fronts (Globally and Nationally)....... I am believe Trump caves on this latest threat saying “this device was intentionally designed to circumvent existing laws covering fully automatic weapons” and as such should be dealt with accordingly.
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