9mm reload issues....

[odie1]

OK - maybe someone has seen this before.

I have loaded a long time, but have had something strange the last time I tried loading some 9mm.

As always, I have to pay very close attention setting up the dies when using cast bullets (for any caliber), as they are .001 over sized and sometimes will not drop easily in and out of a max cartridge gauge.

Long story, loaded a few hundred after carefully setting up the dies at the beginning, and while testing the loaded rounds, found several that would not even come close to falling in the max cartridge gauge, nor could I even force them in with considerable force from my big fat thumb.

Then noticed all the rounds that would not fit had the same head stamp.... 9mm PARA.

Pulled a couple of the bullets, ran the brass back through the sizing die, and it still would not drop into the cartridge gauge.

It seems the base, just above the the rim, which does not get fully pushed into the sizer due to the shell holder, measures about .005s greater that the max dimensions listed in the load book I have.

Now, I double checked and the load books I have list the 9mm Luger and the 9mm Parabellum as the same round, as I always thought it was. Several sites on the web even state "there is no difference, it is just two different names for the same round"

I guess the question I have is has anyone ever seen this before? Any good explanation? I thought maybe they were fired in a "non-supported" chamber, but all the cases I checked seemed exactly the same (not saying that rules out the non-support chamber, but I would think I would see a little variance), and I was measuring on the rim, not just above it where I would normally see the buldge.

Thoughts?

Odie1

 

[HMFIC]

9mm Luger and Parabellum are two names for the same thing. Shouldn't be any worries there.

What kind of brass is it? Norinco? Does it have a triangle opposite the PARA? If so, there are reports of it being soft and possibly ending up oversized near the head like that. The real issue is that you aren't able to get it to size back down.

You likely won't be able to post size very well with that boolit, but on the case sizing, make sure that you're pressing the ram up as far as it can go to the mouth of the die. Screw the die in just as far as it will go touching the shell holder. If you have a die with a slight widing at the mouth combined with a shell holder that is sloppy and doesn't allow it to press up as far as possible, it could be causing you not to get fully sized all the way down.

Anyway, if it's just certain brass, then I'd likely just toss those and use what works. There are too many horror stories about AMERC brass and other crappy ones that just make life too difficult.

 

[Shadowrider]

Sounds like you have some "glocked brass". This is a common problem with stout loads that were fired in a Glock pistol. In 9mm about the only option is get a EGW "U" die. It's ground a little shorter so the case will go farther into it. Remember that 9mm is actually a tapered case. You just aren't getting it deep enough into the die. Another option is a case pro, but they are very expensive and the wait time is long so it's probably not worth it unless you are loading thousands of rounds per year.

 

[odie1]

Not reloading thousands a year, but was just curious. I think these will definitely go into the trash. I just thought it was a little odd that they were all the same headstamp.

I did play around the an unloaded case and set up the sizer die to where the shell holder was actaually was making contact with it..... no joy...

I suppose this might mean I need to taked an extra step in any range pick-up brass I have... run it through a sizer and make sure it fits into the cartridge gauge...

Odie1

 

[Twmaster]

Sounds like you got some junk brass. I've reloaded thousands of 9MM Luger cases. Lots of them 'Glocked' brass. Only had a couple of cases do what you describe.

If not a hassle I'd like to see a photo of the headstamp.

 

[tyromeo55]

What dies are you using?

 

[oneof79]

I didn't think Glock 9mm's had the unsupported case head issue the 40's do. Have you tried using the barrel of your pistol as a case gauge?

 

[NikatKimber]

I didn't think Glock 9mm's had the unsupported case head issue the 40's do. Have you tried using the barrel of your pistol as a case gauge?

They don't have the blow out problem, but they do have the unsupported case head. The 9mm just have a much smaller (but still present) smiley.

I shoot a Glock 9mm, and have never had this issue with my brass. A piece here and there, but not consistent, and not confined to one headstamp. My guess is bad brass somehow, or shot out of a seriously out of spec gun.

Also, typically the Glocked brass will measure larger only if you measure across the smiley, if you measure 45-60 degrees off that, it wouldn't measure large.

Just a thought, if someone loaded those hot (+p+++ ??? anyone?) and shot them out of a straight blow back gun, would it consistently blow out the base?

 

[HMFIC]

I'm curious about the headstamp too. I used to have some Israeli 9mm UZI ammo that was loaded super hot and like NikatKimber says, if they were hot loads especially shot in a gun with a loose chamber, it could explain the bulge.

Still, no matter how the bulge got there, if you can't size them back down then you're not getting a good full length size with your die. The type and manufacturer of die will matter as they are all slighty different and I'm curious as to what kind you're using as well. The only 9mm dies I have are Lee carbide and I've never had an issue with them like this.

I'd almost try trimming the case mouth down really low and then press the case into the die with an arbor or something to get it up higher than the case holder would allow, then remove the die and knock it back out from the top by hand with a dowel just to see if the die is even capable of sizing it down to the right size at all if you can get it up in there higher. Either that or break out the calipers and see if you can measure the mouth of the die accurately. It might even have a slight taper at the mouth to aid in press feeding which could be part of the issue.

Oh... what kind of press too?

I'd probably have thrown the brass out already and moved on, but I'm curious too lol.

 

[Buzzdraw]

I'm also subscribing to the "too hot loaded" theory for your brass. Could even been inadvertent hot-rodding if the bullets are getting pushed back into the case during feeding. Those pressures get real hot.

I run 9mm Glocks, both with factory barrels and with aftermarket, without any deformed brass that are noticeable. Since its been mentioned in this thread, I'll give it a look for base smiley faces the next time I run some +P+ or like stuff.

I'm the very careful volume reloader who doesn't own a factory case gauge. IMO the ultimate case gauge is the tightest chamber gun in which the ammo will be used. I will chamber-drop loaded rounds into that chamber to look for proper fit; not all of them, but enough to be sure 100% function is there.