Was there alcohol on the fishing boat ?
A few beers in the ice chest but we hadn't been drinking.
This is an interesting situation. Case Law has extended domicile privileges to vehicles. Basically you are allowed the same Castle privileges in your vehicle that you have in your home. You don't have to endanger yourself and others by fleeing in your vehicle and can stand your ground.
I'm curious if there is "Tread your Water" case law. Do domicile privileges extend to boats as well? By driving away, you made a reasonable effort to avoid any additional danger. However, if they had pursued you, you might have been forced to protect yourself and the other occupants. I would have told someone on the boat to start calling 911. At least have them on the phone and recording the incident.
I'm curious if there is "Tread your Water" case law. Do domicile privileges extend to boats as well? By driving away, you made a reasonable effort to avoid any additional danger. However, if they had pursued you, you might have been forced to protect yourself and the other occupants. I would have told someone on the boat to start calling 911. At least have them on the phone and recording the incident.
So looking at this objectively. There is an altercation at 2am with a bunch of drunks(them not you). When you first saw there was friction with them and they were enebriated I would have been on 911. Me or another passenger could have gotten a phone in 10 seconds. Or record it with a phone video. Like someone stated before if you popped one off at the driver you never know how many guns would be pulled from their end. I think you did the right thing of course I simply wasn't there to make a sound opinion. But if someone is taking an account of what happened on paper and you killed the guy it would be a litigation nightmare that would be a national headliner and you'd probably have your life ruined regardless. Maybe not ruined but you get the point..that much bad pub would be a disaster even if proven innocent. Everyone on his boat is going to say he was innocent/not endangering and your crew would refute of course. When you throw in alcohol being involved by both parties you're not looking good. Their lawyer would run with that.
Again, I'm glad you made the right decision. I just respectfully disagree that when looking at the facts from your side and what they would likely say took place from their view that lethal force would have been a bad decision.
Again, I'm glad you made the right decision. I just respectfully disagree that when looking at the facts from your side and what they would likely say took place from their view that lethal force would have been a bad decision.
You would have been on the phone to 911..
Works if you have a phone.
Some of us do not have a cell phone.
I think the drunks need to be found and reported before they do hurt someone.
Did you guys know it is a felony to run jugs or a trotline that is not yours.
What were those guys doing on the lake so late? could be a good question.
I was hunting on core land and had some partying punks yelling and telling us to leave.
after about 45 minutes of that i was fed up and started my 600 yard walk back to my vehicle to have a chat.. they split but poured beer all over my car and left a full open can of it on my hood.
Plenty of fools out there that is for sure.
Works if you have a phone.
Some of us do not have a cell phone.
I think the drunks need to be found and reported before they do hurt someone.
Did you guys know it is a felony to run jugs or a trotline that is not yours.
What were those guys doing on the lake so late? could be a good question.
I was hunting on core land and had some partying punks yelling and telling us to leave.
after about 45 minutes of that i was fed up and started my 600 yard walk back to my vehicle to have a chat.. they split but poured beer all over my car and left a full open can of it on my hood.
Plenty of fools out there that is for sure.
Man... if it came to you thinking he was actually going to swamp you, it would be a tough call in that situation whether you and your gal are safer taking your chances in the water, or taking your chances on gunplay. Seems like in the water, there are all kinds of things that could go wrong... not the least of which being that you might get run over by the drunk. Plenty that could go wrong with going guns out too... them being armed, hitting the driver and causing him to ram you directly, etc... and of course the whole legal issue that is sure to follow. Tough to weigh all that in the moment. If I were on the jury I would sure vote to acquit you if you chose to shoot, and if I were the DA I wouldn't file charges.
I suppose another option would be to make for the shore... sounds like you were pretty close already. He can't circle you or swamp you if you're pulled up on the beach. The worst they could do is come ashore themselves, in which case it would be a much more straightforward self defense situation for you if they tried to assault any of you. That's not an option if you're by a rocky or dangerous shore though.
Getting the light on them, getting their number, getting it on video, and calling 911 are all good ideas as well. Having one of your party call the cops right away would be prudent from a legal standpoint if you think self defense is actually likely to become an option... obviously the cops are minutes away when seconds count, but having a 911 call record of the situation plus video and eyewitness testimony would definitely be a good thing legally speaking. Also there is a deterrent factor when they see you on the phone, especially if they know you have their boat number.
Glad to hear you and your gal are safe... your boat and generators too!
I suppose another option would be to make for the shore... sounds like you were pretty close already. He can't circle you or swamp you if you're pulled up on the beach. The worst they could do is come ashore themselves, in which case it would be a much more straightforward self defense situation for you if they tried to assault any of you. That's not an option if you're by a rocky or dangerous shore though.
Getting the light on them, getting their number, getting it on video, and calling 911 are all good ideas as well. Having one of your party call the cops right away would be prudent from a legal standpoint if you think self defense is actually likely to become an option... obviously the cops are minutes away when seconds count, but having a 911 call record of the situation plus video and eyewitness testimony would definitely be a good thing legally speaking. Also there is a deterrent factor when they see you on the phone, especially if they know you have their boat number.
Glad to hear you and your gal are safe... your boat and generators too!
Yes...anyone who does that is trash, but anyone who'd shoot them for it is even worse...But then you have the possibility the guy checking the line feels threatened by the stranger who caught him in the act. This is the great paradox of concealed carry...what would you do if you caught someone keying your car??? See how fast things could go bad if you don't just keep an eye on them and call the cops? But even then, YOU HAVE NO PROOF. The law is very much setup to protect people when there is reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, that means YOU are going to jail if you do anything to a guy checking your jug lines...you have to just let him do it or ask him to stop and risk confrontation to where the prosecutor says "...so and so shot so and so for checking his jug lines..." Even if the bad guy threatened you when you caught him...it won't matter.
It is my understanding that when concealed carrying, you are held to a higher standard and that if you do anything that you know could encourage or escalate conflict, knowing you are armed, then you are making a willful decision to stay in the fight instead of retreating except if your life is in imminent danger? So if you are carrying and some guy flips you off in traffic, and you CHOOSE to flip him off back, and it leads to him attacking, then you might not be off the hook if you shoot him because you chose to escalate while you were armed. Isn't that the way the law is setup?
Felony? Oklahoma law says it's a misdemeanor.
B. No person shall take fish from a trotline, throwline, jugline, or limbline of another person without permission from that person.
C. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than Twenty-five Dollars ($25.00) nor more than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00).
IANAL, so YMMY.
Poaching isn't a felony in OK either. In Wyoming, after two misdemeanor poaching charges within 10 years, the next one will be considered a felony, and that's new just in the last couple of years IIRC.
