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tiasman

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Just the fact that someone would feel so entitled that they think a business should custom design video streaming just for them is an illustration of how far astray we have gone. Its complete insanity now. If you don't like a product/store/whatever, don't purchase from that business. Simple concept really, and it allows for freedom.
 

SoonerP226

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Don't take this as a personal dig: But are you ready to disclaim the '64 Civil Rights Act as infringing on the personal rights to refuse service?
Yes. There are parts of that law that are good, but forcing people to do business by law isn't one of them. If people actually care about that, they will use reason or put economic pressure on the business owners to change their ways--witness the "bus strike" in Montgomery or the actions of some of our members in getting business owners to take down the "gun buster" signs.

Don't get me wrong--I don't think that business owners who discriminate against minorities or don't take accessibility into account during remodels are right to do so, but I do support their right to be wrong.
The majority of people commenting in this thread have never been told to update anything to meet ADA, yet they all act like it is another millstone around their neck keeping them from being something other than what they already are.
We only have finite resources to do things, so every dollar spent on accommodation is a dollar that can't be spent on something else. F'rinstance, we have an elevator in one room that goes up about two and a half feet. It was done for ADA compliance, but has been used once in the 10+ years the room has been open--when I tested it immediately after construction. I don't know how much money we spent on that, but there were other places we really could have spent it that would have had much more effect on the room's purpose.

Edit: I guess I should finish that thought--I think we were right to install the lift, but it should have been our decision, not the decision of some bureaucrat it DC, because only we know if that expenditure is better than what else we'd have done with that money.
 
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tiasman

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So you've lost millions of dollars due to ADA, but you can't give any details. Okay, I believe you.

I will try to help you out here. I work for a large company. I am personally responsible for a multi million dollar budget. Yes, the ADA and its regs have had that effect. Follow now? We also have a strict social media policy that I have to abide by.
 
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henschman

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Don't take this as a personal dig: But are you ready to disclaim the '64 Civil Rights Act as infringing on the personal rights to refuse service?

Let me jump in here -- yes. I find that sacred cows make the best burgers. ;)

The majority of people commenting in this thread have never been told to update anything to meet ADA, yet they all act like it is another millstone around their neck keeping them from being something other than what they already are.
You know, even if everyone in the entire nation were already complying with every term of the ADA voluntarily, it would still be an unjust act, simply because it threatens violence against people who are not threatening the rights of others.

Besides, even if the heavy hand of big brother isn't currently bearing down on you, is it so hard to imagine sticking up for the rights of someone else? Before you go accusing me of being selfless, let me assure you that I defend the rights of others out of a profound sense of self-interest.
 

SoonerBorn

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Don't take this as a personal dig: But are you ready to disclaim the '64 Civil Rights Act as infringing on the personal rights to refuse service?

The majority of people commenting in this thread have never been told to update anything to meet ADA, yet they all act like it is another millstone around their neck keeping them from being something other than what they already are.

Actually, yeah. See Barry Goldwater. Politics don't rule principal, at least not in my world which is all I would like control of.
 

rhodesbe

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You know, even if everyone in the entire nation were already complying with every term of the ADA voluntarily, it would still be an unjust act, simply because it threatens violence against people who are not threatening the rights of others.

My last comment in this thread, because I don't think you're changing any more than I am so it's just going to get us sideways with each other...

However to Henschman's point above: a sin of omission is still a sin.
 

henschman

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Yes, I think it is pretty clear that neither you nor I are going to convert the other to our particular moral code. However, will you humor one more inquiry in the interest of me better understanding yours? How do you make the leap from believing something is a sin to believing that force and violence is justified in keeping people from committing it?
 

rhodesbe

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Yes, I think it is pretty clear that neither you nor I are going to convert the other to our particular moral code. However, will you humor one more inquiry in the interest of me better understanding yours? How do you make the leap from believing something is a sin to believing that force and violence is justified in keeping people from committing it?

A sin never is justified by the possibility of being wronged. (ie: Internment camps for the Japanese: wrong.) In any case, the fear of 'force and violence' is not a motivation for meeting ADA requirements.
 

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