Oil Earthquakes confirmed

[SMS]

This whole thread is trolly. The oil guys are defending their business and the non-oil guys are defending their opinions

Wrong, there have been at least a few who are neither "oil guys" or "non oil guys" who are looking for unbiased proof of causation, not correlation. Can't imagine why that is such a controversial request, unless of course it calls into question the "facts" either side is using to push their agenda.

 

[doctorjj]

What an expert you are! This manuscript is advertising a method of measuring NPP and GPP (do you know the difference?)
Go to page 559. read second to last sentence.
They did not conduct a controlled study in which they comapred non C fertilized growth with C fertilized growth. Therefore they cannot conclude that C02 alone is responsible for any increase in NPP or GPP. The absence of knowledge about scientific controls again validates my claim that you not of the things you speak.
The manuscript I posted has the adequate controls i speak of and they found that Co2 first increases productivity but in the long term there is no difference and actually can decrease productivity in the long term.

Do you understand how Co2 is even fixed? Do you know what rubisco is? If you did, you might know about Co2 saturation, which occurs when the amount of Co2 no longer affects the rate of C fixation, because it is not the limiting factor.

Unfortunately it seems that we are doing the same thing, you and I. Posting links to articles that support our view points. The difference is that i am actually decently well read in this field whereas i have my doubts that you know the difference between NPP and GPP, or respiration and photorespiration.

The article you posted still showed a 9% increase in biomass production over controls even after several years. It never showed a decrease below controls. Seriously, after your admission of obvious trolling on the other aspects of this thread, I must admit, you trolled me here pretty good. I mean, there's no one, not even the most militant of alarmists who think that C02 fertilization doesn't occur.

 

[Shadowrider]

This whole thread is trolly. The oil guys are defending their business and the non-oil guys are defending their opinions. Here's the bottom line boys, draw your conclusions and decide what works for you. If someone wants to post an article that proves there is no way oil/gas can be responsible, get after it. We've even got moderators participating in this thread so nothing is stopping you. The evidence seems obvious to me so I'm going to post it up and let people read it and I expect them to decide for themselves what they want to believe. But this one might have run it's course and entertaining as it has been, let's recharge and get ready for the next one.

Having an opinion is one thing. But proposing that an industry be largely shut down BASED ON OPINION is a whole 'nuther matter. And just why do we skeptics have to post up proof while you guys don't? Why do we always have to do the lemming knee jerk reaction? Where is the overwhelming damage or risk that warrants this action in light of the FACT that we've been drilling for over 100 years and only in the 5 or so has the "problem" revealed itself? I guess it that principles of freedom are only talking points because this concept is just un-American.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Im not pushing an agenda. I am a teacher.
The proof that is needed to convince those people with deep seeded distrust of anything that questions the oil business will never be found.
I agree that more research is needed but does that mean business should go on as usual in the mean time?
How does it work in other industries, take the drug industry. Substantial research is required before the FDA allows drugs to be sold to the public. (even then the research is not good enough, in many cases). Sometimes studies show that there was not enough research and now people have to deal with unintended side effects.
Take the pesticide business, wouldn't it have been better to know the effects of pesticides on bees prior to spraying it all over the place. Oh and let's talk about Round up. Recently a study showed that it could cause cancer. Wouldn't you have liked to know that before you sprayed it all over the place? How much roundup puts you at risk? Do you know???? wouldn't you like to know????
2 types of people in the world. Those who think before acting and those who act before thinking. In reality we all do little of both, but shouldn't we strive to be the former.

 

[Hobbes]

It's obvious we have some members who make their living from the oil and gas industry so they are naturally defensive and that's completely understandable.
They view this topic as a threat to their profession and livelihood.

On the other hand there are home and property owners that feel threatened in the exact same way.
For many people their home and property is not just their largest single investment, it's the place they raise their family and sometimes the home has been in the family for 2 or 3 generations.

If we do have the mag 7 quake that the USGS is saying is increasing in probability everyone is going to lose.
Widespread damage to property and loss of life for property owners.
Stringent regulation and punitary damage awards that impact oil and ng producers.

It's in everyone's best interest to work this out even if they don't think so right now.
That's why it was so unhelpful for David Boren and Harold Hamm to lean on Austin Holland to keep quiet about the link between injection wells and earthquakes.

 

[Shadowrider]

Im not pushing an agenda. I am a teacher.
The proof that is needed to convince those people with deep seeded distrust of anything that questions the oil business will never be found.
I agree that more research is needed but does that mean business should go on as usual in the mean time?
How does it work in other industries, take the drug industry. Substantial research is required before the FDA allows drugs to be sold to the public. (even then the research is not good enough, in many cases). Sometimes studies show that there was not enough research and now people have to deal with unintended side effects.
Take the pesticide business, wouldn't it have been better to know the effects of pesticides on bees prior to spraying it all over the place. Oh and let's talk about Round up. Recently a study showed that it could cause cancer. Wouldn't you have liked to know that before you sprayed it all over the place? How much roundup puts you at risk? Do you know???? wouldn't you like to know????
2 types of people in the world. Those who think before acting and those who act before thinking.

Ahhh, I see. Indoctrinated in the realm of higher education.

Is the FDA why you can go to Canada or Mexico and get the same exact drug, made by the same exact company, in the same exact facility for 15% of what we pay?
Roundup causes cancer? HA! Hell, what doesn't?

Here's your sign...We all die of something sometime. We need to pass a law or regulation to put a stop to that. Problem solved.
Big government... You can have it, just leave me the hell alone. That's my mantra.

 

[Shadowrider]

It's obvious we have some members who make their living from the oil and gas industry so they are naturally defensive and that's completely understandable.
They view this topic as a threat to their profession and livelihood.

On the other hand there are home and property owners that feel threatened in the exact same way.
For many people their home and property is not just their largest single investment, it's the place they raise their family and sometimes the home has been in the family for 2 or 3 generations.

If we do have the mag 7 quake that the USGS is saying is increasing in probability everyone is going to lose.
Widespread damage to property and loss of life for property owners.
Stringent regulation and punitary damage awards that impact oil and ng producers.

It's in everyone's best interest to work this out even if they don't think so right now.
That's why it was so unhelpful for David Boren and Harold Hamm to lean on Austin Holland to keep quiet about the link between injection wells and earthquakes.

There's a remedy for that and it does not have to be government. Ever heard of OERB? Something similar would work just fine.

ETA: That mag 7 that they are predicting. Where is any evidence whatsoever other than the tripe they spew forth. They actually have some correlation on these small pipsqueak ones. But they are just pulling these mag 7 probabilities out of their ass.

 

[1krr]

Wrong, there have been at least a few who are neither "oil guys" or "non oil guys" who are looking for unbiased proof of causation, not correlation. Can't imagine why that is such a controversial request, unless of course it calls into question the "facts" either side is using to push their agenda.

Prove it's wrong. I see no evidence that specifically suggests it's wrong. Until you post a link to evidence that it's wrong, it must be not wrong.

 

[Hobbes]

There's a remedy for that and it does not have to be government. Ever heard of OERB? Something similar would work just fine.

ETA: That mag 7 that they are predicting. Where is any evidence whatsoever other than the tripe they spew forth. They actually have some correlation on these small pipsqueak ones. But they are just pulling these mag 7 probabilities out of their ass.

Well see, people just aren't satisfied with maybe the OERB will fix my house.
Especially in light of the argument we have going on right now that injection wells are not the cause of earthquakes.

Before the OERB starts repairing homes the industry will have to own up to being responsible.
Otherwise I don't see how the OERB figures into the discussion at all.

 

[1krr]

There's a remedy for that and it does not have to be government. Ever heard of OERB? Something similar would work just fine.

ETA: That mag 7 that they are predicting. Where is any evidence whatsoever other than the tripe they spew forth. They actually have some correlation on these small pipsqueak ones. But they are just pulling these mag 7 probabilities out of their ass.

OERB? Really. That's like asking the Nazi's with help building a synagog. Tell you what. Get big government of property rights, and I'll not ask big government to keep you from causing earthquakes. Deal?