Constitutional carry- what’s different other than no permit?

[Aries]

So, help me to understand this... you don’t see it as making money from us knowing that since we don’t need a permit for here, that if we wish to travel outside Oklahoma’s borders, we do need a permit and they continue charging us what they did before???.....hmmm.
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Okay, what I'm getting is you think they should have reduced the price for permits because the only real reason to have it is in other states?

I'm not sure WHY you need it has anything to do with what it costs to provide it. If I had to guess, the cost to the state per license goes up when they issue fewer, not down. The overall cost may go down, but you still have to have all the same resources available for fewer, but you get less revenue.

At the same time, I don't necessarily disagree with you about the cost. It may be excessive, I just don't know how much it costs to issue a license. It's not so much that it will prevent me from renewing mine, just in case I need to carry out of state. And I really don't expect to carry out of state much, if at all but I've decided to renew it.

 

[CHenry]

The permits were not making money that wasnt being spent on additional man power to process the paperwork and do background checks. The only money made as real profit was to the instructors. That was their bread n butter.
30 students is $1800 for 6 - 8 hours of his time. Supposed to be 8 hours but I know for a fact, some were only 2 hours.

 

[Rod Snell]

The permits were not making money that wasnt being spent on additional man power to process the paperwork and do background checks. The only money made as real profit was to the instructors. That was their bread n butter.
30 students is $1800 for 6 - 8 hours of his time. Supposed to be 8 hours but I know for a fact, some were only hours.

By statute, limit of 10 students per certified instructor. $600 for 8 hours course work may sound like a lot until you pay for insurance, range rental, classroom rental, CLEET charges, prep time, enrolling students, and instructor license. Instructors often team up to make larger classes. Trust me, if you do all CLEET says, you earn the money.
And I agree some instructors should be de-certified for short cutting the classes instead of following the required CLEET lesson plan. Several years ago, CLEET did actually inspect classes to insure compliance.

 

[corneileous]

Okay, what I'm getting is you think they should have reduced the price for permits because the only real reason to have it is in other states?

I'm not sure WHY you need it has anything to do with what it costs to provide it. If I had to guess, the cost to the state per license goes up when they issue fewer, not down. The overall cost may go down, but you still have to have all the same resources available for fewer, but you get less revenue.

At the same time, I don't necessarily disagree with you about the cost. It may be excessive, I just don't know how much it costs to issue a license. It's not so much that it will prevent me from renewing mine, just in case I need to carry out of state. And I really don't expect to carry out of state much, if at all but I've decided to renew it.

I feel they should. I mean after all, it’s not really for Oklahoma, now is it? One could say it could be for them since it does good here too having some people “trained” but that’s simply just a benefit of circumstance. We are no longer required to have that but since if we want to travel to another state that does, we have to pay Oklahoma and go through all the hoops just for that privilege.

But see, you just hit the nail on the head with that second paragraph. Of course the money made from permits is gonna go way down because most people are going to practically use any reason they can just to avoid having to pay for their rights.

But no, I don’t know what it actually cost the OSBI to do a NICS background check on us, and to pay for the materials to make the permit and the cost of shipping to mail our new permission slip to our door but I highly doubt it cost anywhere near what they charge for a permit. What was it they were saying back when Miss Mary vetoed this last time- that the OSBI was gonna be out over $2 million in lost revenue from the permits?? They have to fight that as much as they can.

But I don’t really plan to carry outta state that much, except for to Texas since I’m not very far away from a highly popular shopping/eating spot just south of the border which is why depending on what Texas does in the next couple of years, I’m probably going to renew mine anyway regardless.




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[TerryMiller]

Not touched upon is that I think the fees for the Oklahoma permits were set by legislation. I could be wrong on that, so don't take that as gospel.

On the other hand, whether one wants a permit "for" Oklahoma or to "use" in another state, the OSBI still has to perform the same background checks. In addition to the hiring of personnel to perform those checks (there are more than one check being done), they are also paying for the computer equipment, permit printers, maintenance on all of that, and the continuing expense of creating and updating the software for the issuance of a permit.

If one isn't going to want to carry in another state, then don't worry about the cost and just carry under the new law while here in Oklahoma. If you do want to carry elsewhere, then pay the piper and get a permit.

 

[Snattlerake]

Police perspective

 

[dennishoddy]

"A drug offense" leaves a lot of questions, Only simply possesion has been downgraded from a Felony to a misdemeanor. Maybe this person had an amount they consider "with intent to distribute"?

The issue is in the presence of minor children. The amount was not a factor. You stated non violent drug offenses would not result in incarceration any more, and I knew that to not be correct.

 

[dennishoddy]

While I applaud the work of Don Spencer and the OK2A association, I think it would do them well to consult with others that have been successful in passing legislation that isn't so damn confusing and restrictive.

I am still pretty new here and don't wish to ruffle too many feathers, so I will "pipe down now!" lest I not be a helpful member of this cause.

Your not ruffling feathers at all, so don't think you are.
If you want to see some confusing legislation in Oklahoma, visit our wildlife regulations. The trapping part of it is so confusing that game wardens can't agree on what it actually states. I know because I've discussed it with them, and I'm not alone.

 

[dennishoddy]

Really good point but see, why do they need to continue charging us the same as the old ways when we get carry within our own borders for free?

No government, state or federal will likely reduce a tax on the citizens once it's instituted, no matter if it makes sense or not.

 

[dennishoddy]

The permits were not making money that wasnt being spent on additional man power to process the paperwork and do background checks. The only money made as real profit was to the instructors. That was their bread n butter.
30 students is $1800 for 6 - 8 hours of his time. Supposed to be 8 hours but I know for a fact, some were only hours.

My class started at 8am. I was home by 11 am including drive time.