Does Humanity Need Religion?

[NikatKimber]

They allegedly get judged.

We're where we are today not due to one ideology. It's the result of contributions from all over. I do find it more ambiguous to credit religion with any of it. I think that's too subjective, honestly.

I'm of the opinion that religion is toxic for humanity. We'd be better off without it. I think a lot people's passion for it was manufactured for them by their upbringing. It's all they know, it's all their friends know. They're sheltered and their world-view was painted for them, long before they had the critical thinking skills to choose it alone. Many of those same people think they can objectively scrutinize it, but I believe that the vast majority are incabable. It I could sum it up in 5 words or less... Religion is a thief.

As an example... I was signed up for something I do not endorse. I had no options. I would have rather been raised on earthly knowledge... Astronomy, geology, human history, evolution... But nope, I was raised to believe in magic. It provided all the "answers."

I was raised in a Bible believing home as well. I walked away. I re-evaluated later, realized many of my beliefs from childhood were wrong, and am now a Christian. I'd like to think I can objectively scrutinize my beliefs.

As far as your point, and religion as a "control"...

I think it's most certainly valid, and true. There are, always have been, and always will be people who either lack the ability or the desire to decide for themselves what their beliefs about the world will be. Those people will follow some established religion. Whether that is christianity, islam, science, or one of countless others, will most likely be based on their childhood experiences.

 

[NikatKimber]

We could have a productive discussion about it in PM. I'll be glad to give you a perspective from this side of the fence while also having spent the vast majority of my life on the other side of the fence. I take no credit for any decision I've made. I'm just a product of the culmination of events that have lead me here.

I think religion should be more of an open topic and not one that's just shared by those who are like minded. It's unfortunate many don't like their ideas or beliefs to be scrutinized and instead keep them safe by only sharing them when they're in the presence of the like minded.

But, we're all different and I can respect some just like to avoid conflicting ideas.

You are right. In private, or at least smaller groups, or in person, many things can be discussed civilly. I don't personally prefer avoidance of conflicting ideas, but I don't care for the heated conflict that typically follows on a forum. Maybe this thread stays in the lines; some have; but experience has shown that most do not on this forum.

 

[mightymouse]

Those that need it, are almost never content with keeping it to themselves.

Just as those who don't need it do.

 

[Sil vis pacem para bellum]

Aside from ignoring basic biological principles like altruism, this is great lie that the religious will tell you. Personally, I can speak of several non-religious people, including myself that somehow magically manage day to day life without savagery. If anything, in business and my personal life, I can without a doubt say my morals are significantly more in tact than many religious individuals I've come across. In fact, the more religious they are, the less I trust them, as I usually find that they are compensating for something by vomiting their faux morals upon me.



How did those protections work out for Native American women so long ago? or black women who were slaves? or homosexual women that wanted to marry a few years ago? Too many variables out there in society to thank an ever changing man made religion that has an extensive history of hypocrisy IMO, but that's just me.

Basic inclinations towards altruism sounds great until you actually study what that means in primates. Said "altruism" observed in studies does not mean women are respected, protected from rape, life is precious, you don't lie, steal, cheat, etc. It typically amounts to a minimum level of empathy and is generally strictly limited to a family unit or tribe. Relations between different tribes tends to be savage. Context matters as does human history and reality.

And pretending folks born and raised in western society, surrounded by believers whose heritage and institutions are grounded in centuries upon centuries of notions of justice and morality somehow independently became moral souls is, no offense, borderline delusional. As to Native American women, slaves and gays, no one is claiming that religion is a guarantee against evil - but it is better world, overall, than the alternative. I suggest you do a study of the life style/culture of most Native Americans related to their treatment of women. As to slaves, it was the Christian abolitionist movement that led the way to their freedom and this country bled itself dry to achieve dignity for the slaves. As to gays, this is another place where WHAT you believe matters. IMO, gays have far more protection under a Judeo/Christian tradition that they do without or under, say, Islam. IMO, you are searching for ways to slam religion without giving consideration for what the world would look like without it.

 

[Dale00]

Basic inclinations towards altruism sounds great until you actually study what that means in primates. Said "altruism" observed in studies does not mean women are respected, protected from rape, life is precious, you don't lie, steal, cheat, etc. It typically amounts to a minimum level of empathy and is generally strictly limited to a family unit or tribe. Relations between different tribes tends to be savage. Context matters as does human history and reality.

And pretending folks born and raised in western society, surrounded by believers whose heritage and institutions are grounded in centuries upon centuries of notions of justice and morality somehow independently became moral souls is, no offense, borderline delusional. As to Native American women, slaves and gays, no one is claiming that religion is a guarantee against evil - but it is better world, overall, than the alternative. I suggest you do a study of the life style/culture of most Native Americans related to their treatment of women. As to slaves, it was the Christian abolitionist movement that led the way to their freedom and this country bled itself dry to achieve dignity for the slaves. As to gays, this is another place where WHAT you believe matters. IMO, gays have far more protection under a Judeo/Christian tradition that they do without or under, say, Islam. IMO, you are searching for ways to slam religion without giving consideration for what the world would look like without it.

Yes.

I'm of the opinion that religion is toxic for humanity. We'd be better off without it. I think a lot people's passion for it was manufactured for them by their upbringing. It's all they know, it's all their friends know. They're sheltered and their world-view was painted for them, long before they had the critical thinking skills to choose it alone. Many of those same people think they can objectively scrutinize it, but I believe that the vast majority are incabable. It I could sum it up in 5 words or less... Religion is a thief.

MaddSkillz I will repeat my challenge:
Articulate your better world in terms of things you favor rather than saying, "Let's get rid of X and then ta-da the world will be great!" I know you are doing that to some degree but try it on 100% just as an exercise. It's scary because then you are opening yourself to attack rather than being the one casting stones.
I am suggesting that you articulate a 100% positive vision for how a religion-free world would be superior. Can you do that? I think it is very difficult to do, but am eager to hear your thoughts.
If no one can convincingly articulate the positives of a religion-free world and what the path to achieving it looks like, then you are taking an enormous leap of faith that it will indeed be better.

 

[Progun223]

Altruism- could you use that in a sentence please? Every time I let my dog out it eats and rolls in its ****, I guess it lacks altruism.

 

[Progun223]

I was at the zoo once, and these apes were humping in public. When they were done the male ape kissed the female and bought breakfast for her. That male ape showed great altruism.

 

[OKCHunter]

Which teachings? First Testament? or the 2.0 version?

??? - your question makes no sense. The New Testament, or if you prefer, the 2nd half of the bible. Christianity did not exist prior to the New Testament.

 

[OKCHunter]

Lots of gray area with regard to "Christianity's teachings."

But I do think people would do better to treat others how they themselves would want to be treated.

Please name one gray area.

 

[mightymouse]

Please name one gray area.

You should keep in mind that the OP's original "question" was never a question at all. He is not a person teetering on the edge, trying to make a decision one way or the other, and coming to this forum seeking advice on his choice. No, his mind was firmly made up before he posted his "question" that became this thread's title. Were he intellectually honest, he would have entitled this thread thusly, "Humanity Does Not Need Religion", instead of coyly posing his "question" as a means to stir the pot.