Here Is A Couple Of Questions For Uvalde Victim Relatives To Ask ...

[El Pablo]

That is completely untrue. Any government run facilities worth a plug nickel, have protocols and supplies designated for emergency response personnel to have access control in emergencies. Shift leaders and command centers have grand master keys and management electronic access control levels, so they don’t have to rely on the janitor to get them in during an emergency. Key accountability audits are part and parcel of the system, with locks re-cored in the event accountability loss.

There lies the psychological difference. As quick as police are to damage a citizen refusing to comply with their orders, they catch major flak if they damage property during the course of their duties. This applies mainly to agency property and business or government property, not things like cars belonging to suspects.

On the other hand, firefighters are trained to break property. Windows, doors, roofs, walls, whatever it takes to rescue people and extinguish fires.

SWAT teams breaking doors typically have prior approval to break a door, in the form of a warrant or incident commander approval. In some agencies, line officers have to have approval to even pit a fleeing suspect.

FWIW, I doubt many of the LE in charge of this clusterfark even considered taking out a wall, door or ceiling. Consider the pathetic claim that the situation had transitioned to an armed and barricaded and that there were no children in continued harm’s way at that point (which was a stupid assumption on the part of UCISD Chief Sitting Dumbass). What was his overriding concern at that point? Apprehending the suspect? Or keeping control of the scene while not putting any of his officers in any danger?

He worked for the school administration and just got elected to town council. Since he’s in hiding and refusing to answer the public’s valid questions, I think we can safely assume his focus was on saving the town and school’s money, which also helped him keep himself and his officers away from danger.

This is correct, but in the past couple of years, more and more active shooters have engaged responding officers. The cops aren’t the only ones whose tactics can change.

The problem is that for some unexplainable reason, school systems in America have been granted a level of autonomy they neither need nor deserve. They’ve become little fiefdoms where problems are concealed and public concerns are dismissed.

That has to change. School administrations and boards should have exactly 0% control over law enforcement operations. This had morphed from a security issue to a law enforcement issue the second the perp fired his first shot (which was before he stepped on school property).

School administrations and boards love to point out that they’re the experts on education and ordinary citizens should defer to their expertise. Fine. When an active shooter steps on their turf, THEY are the ordinary citizens who have no expertise on active shooter response.

I can extrapolate this dynamic into other criminal activity. When a student or teacher sexually harasses someone within the school, that’s a school problem. When they cross the line to sexual molestation or rape, that’s an LE problem and the school administration should be excluded from the investigation, unless they’re being interviewed as a witness.

That’s the way it works everywhere else that crimes happen, why are schools different? They’re not special and deserve no deference. When it comes to active shooter operations, the incident command should be transferred every time someone with more experience, qualifications and resources shows up. School, city/county, state. In certain rare instances, incident command can be cooperatively shared, but the senior person/agency should agree with the final decisions.

The fact that the school “police chief” who’s expertise was 911 dispatcher and then less than 2 years in the chief’s position, felt he had the authority and expertise to remain in command, when dozens of local, state and federal law enforcement officers with far more expertise and equipment were on scene, is an indictment of the active shooter response protocols in place in Uvalde, TX.

UCISD Chief Sitting Dumbass should’ve been in charge of nothing more than providing access keys, diagrams/layout of the building and other pertinent information to the cavalry when they arrived.

You may want to do some quick research on just how keys to buildings and elevators work for firemen. When there is a master key, it makes things easy. Much less the issue of securing fire exits.

What keeps us safe in our building at my company is cameras everywhere and people watching them, not the locks. That’s trivial to get by with a few minutes of googling and a few quick online orders or making your own trivial tools.

 

[turkeyrun]

I have yet to see any thing about where he got the weapons. Apparently a legal sale with a back ground check but nothing else. I would think any dealer would be suspicious of a newly 18 year old buying two high dollar AR's, many mags. ammo and body armor. Wonder what the conversation was during the sale?

He legally purchased 2 ARs, 2 weeks apart, through FFL and had background checks

Many rumors and talk of body armor. No official report states he had body armor.

 

[Glocktogo]

You may want to do some quick research on just how keys to buildings and elevators work for firemen. When there is a master key, it makes things easy. Much less the issue of securing fire exits.

What keeps us safe in our building at my company is cameras everywhere and people watching them, not the locks. That’s trivial to get by with a few minutes of googling and a few quick online orders or making your own trivial tools.

That’s the problem. You’re applying logic relevant to burglars and thieves, to active shooters. It doesn’t work

Cameras and people watching them have NEVER protected anyone. They can be effective visual deterrents against those with a fear of getting caught. They’re useful in vectoring response units to an incident, but they’ve never stopped anyone intent on carnage and ultimately their death. They’re only effective in piecing together the puzzle after the fact if they’re properly designed, installed, maintained and operated. CCTV systems are frequently compromised due to budget cuts, or improper design, installation and/or operation.

There’s an entire debate to be had regarding whether larger, better funded facilities should default to fail-safe vs. fail-secure in these types of events. But that’s irrelevant to a small school building in a town of 15k people. All physical locks in the UCISD (because they can’t afford expensive CCAS systems) should be cored to accept a grand master. The school police, Uvalde PD and Uvalde Co. SD should all have school grand master keys at hand, along with the fire dept.

What applies to your company is irrelevant to a government run facility. I very much know what I’m talking about here, because I have authority and responsibility to audit and if necessary, require changes at the facility where I work.

I’m not trying to step on your toes here, but I am correcting the erroneous information you’ve put forth.

 

[Glocktogo]

He legally purchased 2 ARs, 2 weeks apart, through FFL and had background checks

Many rumors and talk of body armor. No official report states he had body armor.

He had a tac vest or plate carrier, but no actual armor.

 

[Uncle TK]

Here is a good article to read it explains why we have Schools Shooting

https://makemyschoolsafe.org/guide/...oblems-having-regular-police-presence-schools

 

[El Pablo]

That’s the problem. You’re applying logic relevant to burglars and thieves, to active shooters. It doesn’t work

Cameras and people watching them have NEVER protected anyone. They can be effective visual deterrents against those with a fear of getting caught. They’re useful in vectoring response units to an incident, but they’ve never stopped anyone intent on carnage and ultimately their death. They’re only effective in piecing together the puzzle after the fact if they’re properly designed, installed, maintained and operated. CCTV systems are frequently compromised due to budget cuts, or improper design, installation and/or operation.

There’s an entire debate to be had regarding whether larger, better funded facilities should default to fail-safe vs. fail-secure in these types of events. But that’s irrelevant to a small school building in a town of 15k people. All physical locks in the UCISD (because they can’t afford expensive CCAS systems) should be cored to accept a grand master. The school police, Uvalde PD and Uvalde Co. SD should all have school grand master keys at hand, along with the fire dept.

What applies to your company is irrelevant to a government run facility. I very much know what I’m talking about here, because I have authority and responsibility to audit and if necessary, require changes at the facility where I work.

I’m not trying to step on your toes here, but I am correcting the erroneous information you’ve put forth.

My point is, you only stop the stupid active shooters. The ones that plan, not much will stop them. I'm more afraid of the people smart enough to not use guns.

At my company, hopefully the security watching doors, etc would notice someone the few seconds someone trying to get in where they shouldn't. It does get tested. Also, we have some very easy, common sense security on all the solid wood doors to offices.

 

[CC379]

Here is a good article to read it explains why we have Schools Shooting

https://makemyschoolsafe.org/guide/...oblems-having-regular-police-presence-schools

was that written by a wannabe school shooter?

 

[rickm]

When i was in school none of the doors had any kind of locks on them people could come and go day or night and most of us grade school boys brought our 22 rifles to class with us and stood them in the corner til school was out and carried them home hunting on the way, when entered high school nearly every pickup or car had atleast 2 guns in them a rifle and shotgun.

 

[chuter]

Here is a good article to read it explains why we have Schools Shooting

https://makemyschoolsafe.org/guide/...oblems-having-regular-police-presence-schools

I don't see how that article explains why we have school shootings, it's talking about why they think we shouldn't have police in schools.

 

[CC379]

For a police officer to have that access? Why? Because you're worried about one of them losing it or harming the kids?

It's doesn't really do that . . . though.

will not be shocked if it turns out the feds gave him the ar's & ammo