Open Carry rules?

[hrdware]

I can't seem to find the information here or in Google. I 'spose I suck at searching.

I ask because I'm hearing a lot about "No gun" signs will now carry weight of the law after Nov. 1?
I was under the impression they will remain the same, just leave when asked.

According to attorney Doug Friesen, well known firearms attorney, "no guns" signs do carry force of law and do serve as notice. If you carry past a gunbuster sign, there is no requirement for the business owner to ask you to leave again (the sign did that), and you can be arrested for trespass.

 

[SMS]

According to attorney Doug Friesen, well known firearms attorney, "no guns" signs do carry force of law and do serve as notice. If you carry past a gunbuster sign, there is no requirement for the business owner to ask you to leave again (the sign did that), and you can be arrested for trespass.

Can Doug back that up with an AG/DA opinion or case law?

Most of this conversation has revolved around the misconception that something changed in regards to this with the SB1733 revisions/amendments to the SDA...but in fact nothing has changed. It's still the same muddled field of opinion as it was before open carry passed LOL.

 

[Street Rat]

According to attorney Doug Friesen, well known firearms attorney, "no guns" signs do carry force of law and do serve as notice. If you carry past a gunbuster sign, there is no requirement for the business owner to ask you to leave again (the sign did that), and you can be arrested for trespass.

According to Street Rat, a local nobody who has taken the concealed carry class with Mr. Friesen can confirm that Mr. Friesen is somebody who sure likes to hear himself talk would also like to know if there have been any decisions made to back up the statement of carrying beyond the gunbuster sign. I went to Tinseltown Theaters probably 5 times, each time looking for a sign on the door, it wasn't until the 6th time my wife pointed it out, it was on the glass where you buy the tickets, not on the door.

Not saying Doug Friesen doesn't know what he is talking about, but he is one arrogant piece of work.

 

[hrdware]

According to Street Rat, a local nobody who has taken the concealed carry class with Mr. Friesen can confirm that Mr. Friesen is somebody who sure likes to hear himself talk would also like to know if there have been any decisions made to back up the statement of carrying beyond the gunbuster sign. I went to Tinseltown Theaters probably 5 times, each time looking for a sign on the door, it wasn't until the 6th time my wife pointed it out, it was on the glass where you buy the tickets, not on the door.

Not saying Doug Friesen doesn't know what he is talking about, but he is one arrogant piece of work.

That I am aware of, there is no case law to back up his statement.

 

[okiebryan]

Most of this conversation has revolved around the misconception that something changed in regards to this with the SB1733 revisions/amendments to the SDA...but in fact nothing has changed. It's still the same muddled field of opinion as it was before open carry passed LOL.

I was under no misconception. I agree that this has been a muddled field of opinion. I can't find an instance where someone has been charged for trespassing under the circumstances described, but it would be hard to find among the sea of other minor misdemeanors.

 

[spd67]

Specialist3,

For Government buildings doing business with the public.. there is no exception....if you go into one of those carrying concealed or open, you can be arrested. That is covered in the SDA handbook.


The regulations / laws pertaining to your question about private businesses aren't covered in the SDA so much as they are covered under your local trespassing laws.

As I understand the trespass laws.... if you go into a posted business that has a 'No Guns Allowed' sign, they can ask you to leave... and if you fail to do so immediately, then you can be issued a trespass warning by the local police. The bad thing about that is you can't ever come back on the property again [even the parking lot]. If it happens to be your favorite grocery store, your bank or some other place of business you like to frequent on a regular basis... life could become kind of difficult for you.

Link to the new SDA handbook-

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_Lawbook_NOV_2012.pdf

Not only are you trespassing but if you do not leave you are also in violation of Unlawful Carry just as if you had gone into a school, or other prohibitive place if you don't leave

 

[spd67]

I was under no misconception. I agree that this has been a muddled field of opinion. I can't find an instance where someone has been charged for trespassing under the circumstances described, but it would be hard to find among the sea of other minor misdemeanors.

It actually has to do with an instance where an employer fired an employee who refused to not carry while at work. I'll see if I can find the oklahoma court case for you.

 

[spd67]

That I am aware of, there is no case law to back up his statement.

Gunbuster signs do not carry any force of law...and you can walk right past them...but as soon as someone tells you to leave you have to....

 

[okiebryan]

It actually has to do with an instance where an employer fired an employee who refused to not carry while at work. I'll see if I can find the oklahoma court case for you.

This is not even the same thing as a customer being charged with trespassing. Still interested in seeing the case, though.

 

[Werewolf]

I spent about half an hour searching OK tresspass laws and could find nothing relating to business tresspass. Lots of stuff relating to hunting tresspass, where to place signage on land, residential tresspass, gardens, you name it - if it had to do with land lots of rules. But try as I might I could find nothing that specifically refers to what constitutes tresspass when entering a business.

Then again IANAL nor am I all that great at doing intenet searches.

That said the SDA spells it out that nothing in the SDA takes away a property owners property rights - many of which are enshrined in common law and not necessarily - to the best of my knowledge - codified.

We have a number of attorneys on here who might be able to put this issue to rest. Then again if one opined and someone relying on the opinion got busted, fined, spent time in the pokey might be able to nail the opining attorney - hmmmm... maybe that's why they don't usually opine here on legal matters.