Serious matter in my life right now, i need some car restoration help.

[nofearfactor]

Ive been following this since day one not only because I have a love for old cars, but Mustangs are especially close to my heart. I love em.

(This story just makes my blood boil and I want to do bad things to these bad people. But, I'm getting older and my wife tries to keep me grounded and my BP down so I dont develop heart problems like my dad and his dad died from. Plus, even though Im an old boxer and still workout weekly, I dont think I could handle all of those mouthy little punk gangsters in the joint and would probably get shanked first week for my own big azz mouth. So, I'll just daydream what we could do to these shysters/businessmen. I do have some rather shady characters Ive met and put ink in their skin we could get to...naaaa...dumb ideas. Karma will take care of these people. Some day...).

All I can say about your ordeal is "dayum". What a bunch of fckers... (Reminds me of some soda commercial I think I remember where it seems like the dad comes in and drinks these 2 kids soda and one kid says to the other kid, "We got hosed Tommy, we got hosed..."

My brother is running my dads old paint and body shop today- only difference is the nice paint booth he has that my dad didnt have back in the old days. He does ok, but its not cheap working and living in southern California. He wont do restores unless its one of his own cars or one of his buddies cars mostly because they take too long and take up valuable room in his shop he could be making quicker money with. He prefers quick turn around jobs.

We grew up in the business. My earliest memory when we were kids is from my dad coming home late almost every night because he worked long hours at his shop and I always loved smelling the laquer and paint thinner from his clothes clear in my bedroom. When I was big enough to start helping out at the shop, I think I was about 6 or so- I naturally got all the shat jobs like cleaning up around the shop, pulling tape after paint jobs, detailing the cars after the paint jobs had dried, some body work, and I became the official paint mixing room tech, but never any actual painting outside of spraying 55gal drums and other stuff practicing. It was the 70s and in southern California at the time it seems like they were doing alot of acrylic enamel jobs then. The laquer jobs my dad only did on his hotrods and his personal restores.

After watching probably thousands of paint jobs from the paint rooms window, usually standing on a bucket, the first time my dad let me shoot one myself it was with him standing behind me yelling directions to me over the noise of the paint spraying and the compressor- he must have been brave or stupid too because it was his own 66' Mustang that I was painting. A car he had had ever since I could remember. I had help with the body work, bondoing, featheredging and sanding. But when it came time to go in the paint room he was behind me directing me but I got to do everything myself. I got to do the pre-paint cleaning and prep, tape it off, then mix the paint, set up the gun, etc. It was an acrylic enamel job- midnight blue metallic. (Seems like back then I remember a German friend of my dads who had a shop across the street was the only guy I had seen back then using a gravity gun and doing basecoat/clearcoat jobs, but I think they were still just a European thing then. Now I guess its all basecoat/clearcoat, no idea, Ive been away from the business for a very long time working in the tattooing and music businesses). Years later I finally got to drive it when I got my license and then he later gave it to me for my HS graduation. It still shined and looked great and it still looked awesome. My mom, who was divorced from dad, to trump him, gave me a new Blazer 4x4 for graduation. I put the Mustang in a storage unit when I moved to Oakland to go to art school in San Francisco and kept it covered and only drove it on weekends. Years later, like a dumbass, I sold it to fund buying the first of my Toyota Supra turbos.

Now today I have some extra cash and I wish I could get that old 66 back. That car was my family history. I wish every day that I could find it (John Schnatter, the owner and CEO of Papa Johns Pizza- he got a classic car back a few years ago that he unfortunately had to sell to start to his pizza business). I would restore it, but except for one thing- I would try and put a 302 or something in it instead of that wimpy 289 the original had.

But thats why I know how special this car is to you and your family. You have my hopes and wishes that you get your dream finished. It will be special when its done. Cant take that old money with you when you die. Enjoy that car when it is done. Man, would sure be nice to take a ride in it. Good luck.

My Mustangs today:

My 2001 GT. My brother painted it here in Oklahoma at a friends shop. Need to redo the hood. (No one else would notice the imperfections- but I know theyre there).
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The 98'. My brother did this flame job in one week last summer at his shop in San Diego. Alot of beer and alot of work. Won a couple of trophys at a few meets in Cali. (Not too many people can tell that on both sides the flames dont match. Waaaa).
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[OkieMoe]

I wonder if they are running the bill up to try and hope for a title 42...

 

[POSITIVE DISCONTENT]

Sucks that they are money pits but with current prices for labor and no US made parts (you can argue this all you want but it's fact) it's hard to get one done cheap. Took me a year to do a 66 fastback mostly because of parts on backorder (they all come from one place and are repackaged). Total cost after changes was about 35K but it was with new subframe, rack and pinion, new sheet metal and paint. If you need any help on pricing or are questioning costs give me a shout.

 

[Robert871]

Sucks that they are money pits but with current prices for labor and no US made parts (you can argue this all you want but it's fact) it's hard to get one done cheap. Took me a year to do a 66 fastback mostly because of parts on backorder (they all come from one place and are repackaged). Total cost after changes was about 35K but it was with new subframe, rack and pinion, new sheet metal and paint. If you need any help on pricing or are questioning costs give me a shout.

Our major problem with the price was that they lied to us on every occasion. You can harp foam your experience that this is ou fault and that everyone that has ventured into restoring a classic knows it takes twice the time and money in the end. Iregarsless. I proclaim that it's utter v/s that they low ball you to get it in the shop. Rip it to pieces to keep ot there, and then haze you on prices, burning through the money and more in no time with minimal noticeable change to the car; the whole time telling us " the car is in great condition and has no real rust concerns" also noted that we had all the parts already.

The fact is from a 20k quote when we started, its looking to end up being about 38k. And with the way the car looks I think we can be at piece with that. But we will not forgive the fact that the car was to be completed before thanksgiving, and they have pushes our car aside to make every extra side job they could before ours. And they went multiple months with no real work done to the car. And the fact that they have lied to us every step of the way about how long before they do anything. And they never tell us before time when something is holding them up... The latest example: the graphic lettering on the x stripe requires a stencle to be made by a 3rd party for them to use on the car. Their guy they use has supposedly dripped the ball an this is why they have not touched the car for yet another month. And guess what. Less than an hour on the phone after I found out they had an issue, and I found a guy ready to turn out the stencle they need next day..... This is an enexcusable failure as a businessman on the shop owners part.

 

[doctorjj]

I still don't understand why you are protecting the shop's identity. I mean what in the world could they do at this point to redeem themselves? They've already put you through enough for them to deserve to be trashed at every opportunity. Let alone protecting them from people even knowing who it is.

 

[Shadowrider]

Damn dude. It pisses me off to see this! I was hoping to see a damn fine looking Fastback 'Stang posted up in here.

Warning: Below isn't good news and may not be easy to read. I hope I'm wrong....

.....and the front of the car still needs to be clear coated....

Say whut?
Is the rest of the car clear coated? Did they lay the base coat on the front? Did they remove the front clip to paint? This makes no sense unless maybe they removed the front to paint separately.

we discovered just how seriously this guy is going to piss us off this last week. i decided to call up floyds on 31s and 169 to inquire what it would cost to have them finish the paint, seeing as how i was upset that we had to break down and give up on the custom lettering we wanted... and the fact as it was explained to me is that "we better get him to finish the paint on that car, anything else can be done by any other monkey with a wrench, but with all the products and techniques out there for paint, having a half painted car is simply not something anyone else is going to be willing to finish; without stripping and redoing it themselves" which in a nut shell will mean another 5-8k to get a completed paintjob from anyone else...

so the way we see it is if we have to pull the car, he owes us a refund to the price of having it painted, at the very least, if not more, for it still being in pieces.

The guy you talked to about finishing the paint for you is telling you straight. For the reason refer back to post #32 and #33. If they are using a modern basecoat/clearcoat paint system, sometimes referred to as a 2K system, the graphics and lettering are really your last concern. Because if they have had basecoat on the car with no clearcoat or intercoat clear on top for 60 days like it sounds, then that paint is going to have to be redone anyway. Sorry if that's what has happened. It's a damn shame.

Find out precisely what paint products they are using. Part numbers for base coat, hardeners (catalyst), reducers and retarders, part numbers for the clear, catalysts, reducers. For everything they sprayed on the car. Then you can look up the tech sheets and see the time parameters required and rework requirements. Ditto for primers and sealers that they used. I suspect that this may come in handy when you go to court, which I also suspect is quite likely if you want to have any chance at resolving this.

 

[HMFIC]

I still don't understand why you are protecting the shop's identity. I mean what in the world could they do at this point to redeem themselves? They've already put you through enough for them to deserve to be trashed at every opportunity. Let alone protecting them from people even knowing who it is.

Post #49

 

[Robert871]

Damn dude. It pisses me off to see this! I was hoping to see a damn fine looking Fastback 'Stang posted up in here.

Warning: Below isn't good news and may not be easy to read. I hope I'm wrong....




Say whut?
Is the rest of the car clear coated? Did they lay the base coat on the front? Did they remove the front clip to paint? This makes no sense unless maybe they removed the front to paint separately.



The guy you talked to about finishing the paint for you is telling you straight. For the reason refer back to post #32 and #33. If they are using a modern basecoat/clearcoat paint system, sometimes referred to as a 2K system, the graphics and lettering are really your last concern. Because if they have had basecoat on the car with no clearcoat or intercoat clear on top for 60 days like it sounds, then that paint is going to have to be redone anyway. Sorry if that's what has happened. It's a damn shame.

Find out precisely what paint products they are using. Part numbers for base coat, hardeners (catalyst), reducers and retarders, part numbers for the clear, catalysts, reducers. For everything they sprayed on the car. Then you can look up the tech sheets and see the time parameters required and rework requirements. Ditto for primers and sealers that they used. I suspect that this may come in handy when you go to court, which I also suspect is quite likely if you want to have any chance at resolving this.

the base coat has been on it for over a month i know that. and the black stripe not long after the base coat, the cleared the rear of the car within a week i think, but they have been waiting at least a month on the front half because of the graphic...

so are you telling me that its going to look like ****. or its going to develop problems later on down the line after we have had it for awhile?

maybe this will help. he mentioned that when they get the graphic ready to put the lettering on the car, they are going to sand it and then sand the car paint where its not been clear coated i think is what he said.... then clear it? i do not know if that is exactly what he said, but i know he said something about sanding again before clearing the remainder of the car.

 

[Shadowrider]

the base coat has been on it for over a month i know that. and the black stripe not long after the base coat, the cleared the rear of the car within a week i think, but they have been waiting at least a month on the front half because of the graphic...

so are you telling me that its going to look like ****. or its going to develop problems later on down the line after we have had it for awhile?

maybe this will help. he mentioned that when they get the graphic ready to put the lettering on the car, they are going to sand it and then sand the car paint where its not been clear coated i think is what he said.... then clear it? i do not know if that is exactly what he said, but i know he said something about sanding again before clearing the remainder of the car.

It totally depends on the specific type of paint they used. Not the brand, the type. If they used an old style acrylic enamel or acrylic lacquer then sanding and clearing is perfectly fine. But I've been around a lot of people that paint custom bikes, cars and trucks and from reading all the forums that I used to frequent constantly, I can say that I haven't heard of or know of anybody that uses those paints anymore. They use basecoat/clearcoat system because they are fast, easy to work with, very durable and they look great.

I honestly don't know what it will look like because I've never not cleared basecoat in the same day. They (PPG, DuPont, House of Color, Nason, friggin everybody) all say it's to be clearcoated within a very specific time frame and that's a matter of hours usually whether it be automotive or aircraft paints (I've done those too). I suspect you will have the clear not adhering to the basecoat or the base will color fade badly. Some sort of serious issue like this because a chemical reaction between the base and clear takes place. They are chemically designed to go together and it has to be when the base is fresh. House of Color used to (and I'm sure still does) make what they called an "intercoat clear" specifically for complex graphics that take alot of time. You would shoot the base and maybe a layer or two of airbrush graphics. Then hit it with this intercoat clear. Then you could do more airbrushing over the next day or two without worry as long as you used the intercoat clear over the basecoat graphics as you apply them. Then you put the final clear on after the last basecoat graphic is sprayed. The moral to this story is with basecoat/clearcoat systems you spray the clear as soon as the the base has just dryed. Always.

As I said before, find out what paint they used. If they are old school and are doing an old school hand rubbed lacquer type paint job, you are fine. But they are a glutton for punishment if they are. Just way more work than required these days.

 

[AKguy1985]

I'm glad you and your family has more patience than me. I would have went off long ago if it was my car.