Sig and HK question

[mhphoto]

I could see how some competition shooters wouldn't like the standard HK trigger. It's pretty flexy. But other than that I'd say cost. My USPc .40 cost me a little over $900 OTD, and I could've gotten a G23 for what, around $600 OTD? That leaves a whole lot of room for upgrades and customization.

But then again I've never shot competitively, so I really don't know.

 

[z06man]

It is very interesting to hear a couple of you say that you shoot effectively more quickly with Glock than the Sig and HK. I haven't ever heard anyone say that.

I'm still surprised to not see them in competitions. I've been shooting my M&P9C in comp because it allows me to practice with my carry piece in a stress(timed) situation. I'm not doing it do post the best scores. I would think that there would be others using them for this reason alone. Also in production class you don't have to worry about what all mods you can do to a weapon. Stock or mildly tuned work fine.

 

[ez bake]

I could see how some competition shooters wouldn't like the standard HK trigger. It's pretty flexy. But other than that I'd say cost. My USPc .40 cost me a little over $900 OTD, and I could've gotten a G23 for what, around $600 OTD? That leaves a whole lot of room for upgrades and customization.

But then again I've never shot competitively, so I really don't know.

You've got to stop buying your guns at whatever place you're buying them

 

[Go_Ordnance]

Off topic, but I thought they do use manual transmissions in drag racing.

Sigh... Did I say they didn't use manuals?

You seem more interested in winning an argument of your own creation, than getting an answer to your question.

 

[z06man]

Sigh... Did I say they didn't use manuals?

You seem more interested in winning an argument of your own creation, than getting an answer to your question.

Ok, I thought they mostly used mostly or all used manuals.

Also I'm not trying to argue. I'm stating my observations and trying to get more feedback from those with more experience, especially in the HK/Sig arena. I've shot numerous Glocks and M&P's, only one Sig and never an HK.

 

[Aldrin44]

I've shot a sig and glock both in competition. My scores were substantially better with the glock. Most people don't want to take the time to learn two different trigger pulls...but it can be done. Then there's the fact that production is really the only place play. You give up a lot (cost, capacity, aftermarket parts and quantity of gunsmiths ) to make it work in other divisions. The x5 is really sweet but by the time you get everything setup you could have bought a widebody sti.

 

[ldp4570]

The high bore axis always makes me chuckle - its somehow never affected my ability to more accurately shoot my old HK and all my Sigs better than my Glocks.

All the low bore axis does is put the barrel more in-line with the natural point of aim (and supposedly reduce recoil due to the fact that its happening lower on the pivot point of the webbing of your strong-hand, but this is also affected by a number of other design differences).

The lack of controls and cost is what gives the Glocks the advantage - you can start a comp with no manual safety engaged (other than the two mechanical internal safeties the Glock has) and every trigger pull is the same.

Due to most of the rules requiring you to have the weapon safety-on before holstering it (if loaded), you end up with the ability to skip several steps with a Glock over even an S/A (or HK cocked/locked) with a manual safety (not that it necessarily makes you faster, but its easier).

The difference in D/A first trigger-pull and each follow-up S/A trigger pull on the Sigs (and HKs if you run them that way) means that you have an effect on both your first shot and the second (possibly the third if you have not adjusted for the single-action trigger by then).

That's a pretty big difference - I know it puts me at a disadvantage when doing drills with friends who use Glocks, but I don't practice or run drills for competition-speed, I do it to train on the same platform that I carry to become proficient at drawing and shooting when carrying or defending myself - and that first D/A trigger pull is useful in ensuring that I really want to pull the trigger that first time when it comes down to it.

Glocks are also a lot cheaper than Sigs and HKs (especially the competition-specific models).

This! Competition is about numbers and scores, self defense is about who is left standing.

 

[JD8]

I've owned several Sigs and H&Ks over the years... now I don't own any. Personally, I can control my shots in quicker succession better with Glocks, 1911s or even more recently, a Steyr.

Cost isn't a significant reason you see glocks in competition IMO, otherwise you wouldn't see so many 1911s, 2011, CZ platforms etc because those aren't that cheap either. It's honestly just a better platform to shoot faster shots on target for those particular people. The bore axis makes a significant difference for me, again, when practicing shots on target in quick succession. This is what self defense is all about IMO and it just happens to score points in competition aswell.

FWIW, my Styer M40 is by far the most controllable .40 I've ever owned, including a full size .40 1911. I've owned a Sig P226 and P229 in .40 and neither came close.

 

[ez bake]

I've owned several Sigs and H&Ks over the years... now I don't own any. Personally, I can control my shots in quicker succession better with Glocks, 1911s or even more recently, a Steyr.

Cost isn't a significant reason you see glocks in competition IMO, otherwise you wouldn't see so many 1911s, 2011, CZ platforms etc because those aren't that cheap either. It's honestly just a better platform to shoot faster shots on target for those particular people. The bore axis makes a significant difference for me, again, when practicing shots on target in quick succession. This is what self defense is all about IMO and it just happens to score points in competition aswell.

FWIW, my Styer M40 is by far the most controllable .40 I've ever owned, including a full size .40 1911. I've owned a Sig P226 and P229 in .40 and neither came close.

But again - what do you carry?

 

[JD8]

But again - what do you carry?

Mostly 1911s and occaisionally a glock or possibly a Kahr for pocket carry (hopes J.P. doesn't see this) I'd carry a Steyr here or there if I had a VM2 for it.