The Feds vs Cliven Bundy

[Okie4570]

Interesting battle of the wills.


http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25168654/i-team-feds-and-nevada-rancher-facing-off-over-public-lands

BUNKERVILLE, Nev. -- Dozens of armed federal officers are preparing for a showdown with a Nevada cattle rancher regarded by some as an outlaw and a hero by others.

Rangers and agents from several federal agencies have surrounded a 600,000-acre section of public land and are preparing to move against rancher Cliven Bundy whose cattle have been grazing illegally for the past 20 years.

"This is the freedom we have in America right now. You got to have your freedom inside that fence there," Bundy said.

Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy thinks the federal government has overplayed its hand in preparing to round up his cattle.

Example, there are two fenced spots where the public will be allowed to protest the roundup. A sign inside the fence shows how some people feel about a First Amendment zone.

During the I-Team's tour with Bundy, a passer-by stopped to offer encouragement.

"I'm one of your neighbors. I get to look at that every day of my life. Hang in there my friend," his neighbor said.

"This has become a police state, and this is an example of it right here," Bundy said.

Miles away, just off the interstate, another fenced area is the where media are allowed. Armed agents in trucks form a wall to prevent anyone from approaching what resembles a military staging area, the heart of the Bundy roundup operation.

More rangers sit at every road leading into the 600,0000-acres Gold Butte area to prevent the general public from coming in.

"With all these rangers and all this force that is out here, they are only after one man right now. They are after Cliven Bundy. Whether they want to incarcerate me or whether they want to shoot me in the back, they are after me. But that is not all that is at stake here. Your liberty and freedom is at stake," Bundy said.

Bundy has had a long time to sharpen his message. The fight has been building since 1993, when the Bureau of Land Management changed grazing rules for Gold Butte to protect the endangered desert tortoise.

Bundy refused to go along and stopped paying his fees. Since then, the BLM and federal courts have ordered him to stop letting his cattle roam throughout Gold Butte, and he has ignored the orders because he does not recognize federal authority over the land.

"My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley ever since 1877. All these rights I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and water. I have been here longer. My rights are before the BLM even existed," Bundy said.

The Bundy family was already ranching here long before the Department of Interior was born, and long before tortoises were protected. But federal courts say he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. BLM has long sidestepped the fight in part because of concerns about what might happen, if it tried to round up his 500 or so cattle that even now are grazing on forbidden public lands.

Bundy says he has always been willing to pay fees but not if it helps to cut his own throat.

"I got no problem with that. I've tried to pay it to Nevada state, to Clark County. They have some of my money in their coffers right now but I'm not going to pay money for the wrong landlord, and I am not going to pay my money to BLM to manage me out of business," Bundy said, "The federal government has seized Nevada's sovereignty, Nevada's statehood. They have seized Nevada's laws and our public land. We have no access to our public land and that is only a little bit of it."

Critics say Bundy is being arrogant and that his cattle have caused irreparable harm to Gold Butte's fragile environment.

Environmentalists forced BLM's hand by threatening to sue in federal court. The bureau will pay nearly a $1 million to a private contractor to round up Bundy's cows, but with dozens of government agents positioned all around the area for what might take weeks or even months, the true cost could be much higher.

Bundy's cowhands have time to kill because they are prohibited from heading out to work their cattle. And soon enough, there could be no cattle left. The BLM plans to sell off Bundy's herd. Bundy stops short of saying how far he is willing to take it.

"I've fought this thing legally. I've fought it politically. I've fought it through the media. and I will fight it on the ground if I have to," Bundy said.

The I-Team has been asking to speak with Cliven Bundy for more than two years. He told the I-Team that while he agreed to speak to other media, he intended to save us until the end, and that could come soon.

The BLM won't say exactly when the roundup will begin but it could happen as soon as this weekend.

 

[Old Fart]

What would the Duke do?

 

[Okie4570]

 

[Glocktogo]

Seems that by allowing this to happen for 20 years, the BLM has established a legal precedent in favor of Bundy's claim.

 

[Okie4570]

http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/

 

[Lurker66]

He got 20 years of free grazing for trespassing illegally. Time to move on buddy.

What he's doing is the same thing as an illegal immigrant comming to the U.S and staying for 20 years, as we fight over whether to make him a citizen or send him packing.

 

[Boomer42]

Are you kidding me? If that **** happened here we would just sign the damn rights over to the infians and go there you bastards! And this is why we have the right to arm ourselves!i can't believe the state of Nevada let this happen!over a f@&$ing turtle?!! Unreal! Thanks for posting this!!

 

[Wheel Gun]

I'm thinking that Eric Holder will not be on Mr. Bundy's side.

 

[Dave70968]

He got 20 years of free grazing for trespassing illegally. Time to move on buddy.

What he's doing is the same thing as an illegal immigrant comming to the U.S and staying for 20 years, as we fight over whether to make him a citizen or send him packing.

Not quite. His contention appears to be that he has ancestral title, either to the land in fee simple, or at least to an easement providing for grazing rights (I suspect the latter, given his stated willingness to pay grazing fees to the county). If he actually does have such title, then BLM's denial of grazing rights could constitute a regulatory taking for the purpose of the 5th Amendment's takings clause.

The real question is whether such title is vested in him. He claims it by right of family use for generations, predating the existence of the BLM. It's a weak claim, but not impossible. I'd be very interested to know if there has ever been any formal grant in the past, whether there was a claim staked and recorded, or whether he's just trying to lean on "it was never given to us, but we've always done it." The latter can be a basis for adverse possession, though adverse possession is almost never effective against a sovereign (government) landowner.

Based on very limited information, I think he's probably a crank, but this isn't necessarily the same as an illegal moving where he knew he didn't belong and then demanding normalization; Mr. Cliven--or his ancestors--appear to have been there for quite some time. The details matter.

 

[Dave70968]

Toward the bottom of his homepage, talking about an adjoining Utah county;

ST. GEORGE - By complaint filed Sept. 20 in the U.S. District Court for Utah, Washington County is being sued by a private land developer who, in 1995, volunteered to commit 2,440 acres of his own land into the Red Cliff’s Desert Tortoise Reserve. The land developer, James Doyle, claims that for 18 years the county has failed to meet its obligation to facilitate a deal with the federal government to either purchase Doyle’s land outright, or to exchange it for land of similar value.
County in crisis
In 1990, Doyle purchased 2,440 acres of land in the southern foothills of the Pine Valley Mountain with the intention of building a golf course and a community of luxury homes. In 1994, just as Doyle was preparing to break ground on the project, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service designated most of northern Washington County as a critical habitat for the endangered Mojave Desert Tortoise. Federal regulations prohibited development throughout much of Washington County until the county presented Fish and Wildlife with a Habitat Conservation Plan that protected the tortoise’s natural habitat.

The permit allowed development in Washington County to resume, just as demand for housing in the area was about to reach an all-time high

County officials worked with private land owners, various municipalities, and federal and state governments to create a conservation plan that set aside 62,000 acres of desert tortoise habitat, forming the Red Cliffs Desert Reserve. As a result, in 1996, U.S. Fish and Wildlife issued a countywide incidental take permit: a permit which allowed for the “taking” (disruption) of desert tortoise habitat anywhere outside of the HCP. The permit allowed development in Washington County to resume, just as demand for housing in the area was about to reach an all-time high.
Doyle, along with more than a dozen other private land owners, voluntarily agreed to commit their land to the reserve with an understanding that the Bureau of Land Management would either purchase the land for a fair price or else offer an exchange of similarly valued property, elsewhere.
At a turtle’s pace
Doyle is now suing Washington County, as well as the BLM, the U.S. Department of Fish and Wildlife, and current U.S. Secretary of the Interior, Sally Jewell. Doyle claims that both federal and local governments have not followed through on their promises and, as a result, Doyle has been ruined, financially.
In a 2000 hearing of the U.S. House Subcommittee on Forests and Public Land Management, Doyle testified that delays in reaching an agreement with the federal government had forced him to sell his personal belongings in order to meet the demands of his creditors.

I have had to sell my business assets, including my airplane and my office building in St. George, Utah

“I have had to sell my business assets, including my airplane and my office building in St. George, Utah,” Doyle testified. “I have also had to sell my home in St. George, and just recently, I had to sell my family home in Idaho.”
Doyle’s attorney, Timothy B. Anderson, said that, before the Desert Tortoise issue arose, Doyle incurred many expenses while preparing the land for development.
“Doyle invested significant funds to plan and develop his Washington County land as a golf resort and residential development,” Anderson wrote in the lawsuit, filed on September 9. “He created a Master Plan, obtained water rights, secured zoning adjustments, commissioned transportation and engineering studies, and built infrastructure.”
Doyle said that the government sanctions placed on the HCP land made it difficult to borrow the money he needed to pay off his creditors and meet his tax burdens while he waited for a land-exchange or outright sale to take place.
“I have had to borrow substantial amounts of money, sometimes at interest rates as high as 100 percent,” Doyle said in his testimony to the subcommittee. “I have exhausted both my personal and company resources trying to obtain fair compensation for my property.”

Once Washington County had what it wanted, then it’s incentive to follow up and treat Mr. Doyle fairly had gone away

Anderson said that the HCP implementation agreement obliged Washington County to facilitate compensation for Doyle’s land, or else to purchase it themselves. After 18 years, neither has happened. “Once Washington County had what it wanted, then it’s incentive to follow up and treat Mr. Doyle fairly had gone away.”
Nearly every other private land owner who entered into the HCP agreement was compensated for their land, Anderson said, except for Doyle.
Doyle now retains only 247 of the originally 2,440 acres he originally placed into the reserve. In order to meet the demands of his creditors, he said, he has been forced to sell his holdings, piece by piece, for far less than he believes the property is worth.
“The land developers got what they wanted, the people got what they wanted, but Jim Doyle had his property taken away by creditors,” Anderson said.
Who’s to blame?
Washington County Administrator Dean Cox said the county has done everything it was supposed to do under the HCP agreement.
“The county’s responsibility under the HCP was to facilitate (a deal between Doyle and the federal government).” Cox said that that several deals for land exchanges or purchases for Doyle’s land have fallen through for various reasons.
“Offers were made,” said County Commissioner James Eardly. “There were offers, substantial offers, but again, the agreement said there has to be a willing buyer and willing seller.”
Doyle turned down multiple offers from the federal government, Eardly said. “One offer was just south of $28-million,” he said, “which would have been many, many, many times what he invested in that land.”
Janine Blaeloch, the director of Western Lands Project – a public lands advocacy group that fights the exchange of government lands into private ownership – spoke about Doyle’s land issues in 2001 to the U.S. House Subcomittee on Forests and Public Land Management. In her testimony, Blaeloch said that when Doyle purchased the land in 1990, he knew that his land was on Desert Tortoise habitat.

For him to portray himself as an innocent victim of federal regulation is grossly misleading

“Mr. Doyle did not make a down payment to the state on his land purchase until June 1990, well after the tortoise was first listed (as an endangered species),” Blaeloch said. “Mr. Doylye did not go blindfolded into this land purchase, and for him to portray himself as an innocent victim of federal regulation is grossly misleading.”
Anderson does not deny that his client rejected a $28 million offer from the BLM. “If I said I wanted you to accept $28 million for all of St. George, that would not have been a very good offer,” he said.
In March, 2006, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that Doyle commissioned an appraisal that valued his land at $70 million. Doyle has maintained that his land should be valued at what it would be worth if there were no tortoise issues at all because of a special provision of the Omnibus Parks and Public Management Act of 1996 (sec. 309); the provision states that HCP lands in Washington County must be valued “without regard to the presence of a species listed as threatened or endangered.”
Washington County denies that Doyle has a legitimate claim against the county. The county has done everything in its power to help facilitate a deal between Doyle and the federal government, Cox said. In a motion to dismiss Doyle’s lawsuit, attorneys representing the county reject Doyle’s claims because private landowners were not specifically listed as parties in the HCP implementation agreement. Furthermore, the motion claims that the statute of limitation for taking action on the damages alleged by Doyle has long expired.
Cox said that he can understand Doyle’s frustration in dealing with the federal government. “The county really does empathize with these land owners,” he said, “but we’ve done everything that we can do.”
Washington County filed a motion to dismiss the case on Nov. 22, which Doyle has opposed. If his case survives the motion and proceeds, he has asked for a jury trial.

The listing of the tortoise--especially with the bolded part--resulting in the condemnation or dimunition in value of the land can certainly constitute a regulatory taking, as can the restriction of rights previously enjoyed.

I still think he's probably wrong, but it's more like a 95% chance instead of 100% crazy. There might just be something there.