What is a moderate?

[farmerbyron]

I hear many different people on this site and others that "are sick of the extremes in each party" and "we need more moderates elected". My question is, "what the hell is a moderate anyways?" What are the views that someone could identify a moderate by? Who are these famed people that are supposed to save us all? Is it John McCain and Chuck Schumer who are all too willing to "work together in the name of bipartisanship" to screw the hell out of the rest of us with statist policies? Name names, I really want to know why these people are supposed to be better than the current crop of liars and thieves that work together for their own common good.

Are libertarians considered moderates? Really in a way, their platform is comprised of the extreme end of several issues on both sides of the isle. From the Ds they take the personal freedom angle much further than a conventional D ever would. Legalization of drugs, gay marriage, etc. From the Rs they take gun rights, reduction of govt bureaucracies and budgetary reforms far beyond anything you would identify as a R proposal. So are they moderates or the most extreme of the extremists?

Really, who are the people you consider moderate? What are their views and why do you believe that they are the answer?

Seems to me that principled people with concrete beliefs are a better bet than "moderate" politicians willing to compromise anything just to retain power and claim the high road of bipartisanship. Principled people should be more difficult to be bought by lobbyists than those who don't really have a solid core of beliefs or that the main belief is one of compromise.

It is my opinion that we currently have a bunch of moderates already in office and the gigantic cluster fs of legislation we see every year as evidence of their presence. You honestly cannot tell an R from a D anymore. They are both in favor of large, over reaching and powerful govt. and only have minor squabbles on a few social issues that matter very little. But the media will feed the image of two diametrically opposed parties embroiled in gridlock because "they are just so far apart politically" and people will call for the influx of "moderates" that in reality are already there.

 

[aeropb]

Someone who will compromise

 

[Glocktogo]

It's always seemed to me that they are folks with no real strong feelings or opinions on any major subject. Sort of "take it or leave it" types. They also seem to be easily swayed by superficial arguments unless said argument is rebuffed with a strong challenge. At that point they usually walk away.

 

[Lurker66]

Oh boy. Heres my idea of a Moderate politician. Say we have a National problem, todays hot topic is immigration so with that in mind we look at the problem. Too many illegals are undocumented yet live and work here. The far Left says blanket amnesty, the far Right say deport them. The Moderate understands the problem is political and that means there must be a solution that involves compromises from both extremes.

The extreme left and extreme right wont bend, the moderates are left to attempt a solution. Much like you(far right), you try to persuade, ridicule or use other lame azz rhetoric to get the moderates on your side. The left trys the same. This polarizes the Nation and pits one side with the other. We get no amnesty and we get no deporting.

But as you can see, we still havent solved the problem. Too many undocumented workers. Something or somebody has to bend. The Moderates understand that Politics is compromises. Neither side can win, its a stalemate. But it doesnt have to be.

We could modify some laws and penalize companies for hireing them. But that would mean the construction industry would suffer and the agriculture industry would suffer. Causing wages to go up or houses wouldnt be built. Or food costs would rise because produce would rot in the Fields. The far Right would never go for this. No way will they penalize a Corpiration or Company.....and they would never agree to raise wages, making these jobs more lucrative to AMERICAN CITIZENS. Noway would the Far Right accept blanket amnesty fir 10 million voters, who happen to hate them and tend to side with the left.

The Left meanwhile see the problem differently. They see the problem as "theyve been here for a long time, theyre working building houses and picking produce, leave them alone. Documenting them is justa bunch of needless paperwork or stupid tests anyway. Plus since they hate the Right, who couldnt use an extra 10million votes.

Well heres a Moderate idea. Lets document those we can, say those who have citizen children in school and those who apply for drivers license. Lets document them when they come to the hospitals for care. Lets give the "border" states the resources they need to secure their section of the border.

As you can see, none of these ideas are perfect, the left is gonna whine and the Right is gonna *****. The moderate just wants the problem addressed and solved, knowing that no immigration policy or Law will last forever, even if its written down in black and white. At some point the policy will need to be modified again as future generations have new ideas or borders change or citizens become more tolerant of a law that sometimes can be unjust.


Your a smart guy, you can figure out the rest. Im tired of typing a lesson in politics on my phone.

 

[dennishoddy]

McCain.

 

[uncle money bags]

That guy straddling a barbed wire fence with his sack tangled up, unable to decide whether to break out the wire cutters or call for help.

 

[Mike_60]

They're the ones who are not labeled as terrorists.

 

[Lurker66]

It's always seemed to me that they are folks with no real strong feelings or opinions on any major subject. Sort of "take it or leave it" types. They also seem to be easily swayed by superficial arguments unless said argument is rebuffed with a strong challenge. At that point they usually walk away.

Cmon, Im a pretty vocal member on OSA, Im never easily swayed. Im very opinionated. Im about equally split between some conservative ideals and some Liberal ideals. Im reasonable enough to know that leaning too far one way or the other, shifts the balance of power enough that you get Bush or Obama and a congress thats paralyzed and useless.

I put my money where my mouth is. Im not a Dem or Republican. Im very Independent and wont give a political party my blind support. Ill look at the issues and vote accordingly. I wish more people would see that your only feeding the monster by registering as a Dem/GOP/LIBERTARIAN or any political party.

Im not beholding to a party, the left or right, liberal or conservative and I aint beholding to the moderates. Its my vote and mine alone. If ya want it earn it or ill use it against you.

 

[Mike_60]

Lurker - it sounds like you lost that nut by straddling a barb wire fence. Come on man....pick a side and run with it!

 

[Glocktogo]

Oh boy. Heres my idea of a Moderate politician. Say we have a National problem, todays hot topic is immigration so with that in mind we look at the problem. Too many illegals are undocumented yet live and work here. The far Left says blanket amnesty, the far Right say deport them. The Moderate understands the problem is political and that means there must be a solution that involves compromises from both extremes.

The extreme left and extreme right wont bend, the moderates are left to attempt a solution. Much like you(far right), you try to persuade, ridicule or use other lame azz rhetoric to get the moderates on your side. The left trys the same. This polarizes the Nation and pits one side with the other. We get no amnesty and we get no deporting.

But as you can see, we still havent solved the problem. Too many undocumented workers. Something or somebody has to bend. The Moderates understand that Politics is compromises. Neither side can win, its a stalemate. But it doesnt have to be.

We could modify some laws and penalize companies for hireing them. But that would mean the construction industry would suffer and the agriculture industry would suffer. Causing wages to go up or houses wouldnt be built. Or food costs would rise because produce would rot in the Fields. The far Right would never go for this. No way will they penalize a Corpiration or Company.....and they would never agree to raise wages, making these jobs more lucrative to AMERICAN CITIZENS. Noway would the Far Right accept blanket amnesty fir 10 million voters, who happen to hate them and tend to side with the left.

The Left meanwhile see the problem differently. They see the problem as "theyve been here for a long time, theyre working building houses and picking produce, leave them alone. Documenting them is justa bunch of needless paperwork or stupid tests anyway. Plus since they hate the Right, who couldnt use an extra 10million votes.

Well heres a Moderate idea. Lets document those we can, say those who have citizen children in school and those who apply for drivers license. Lets document them when they come to the hospitals for care. Lets give the "border" states the resources they need to secure their section of the border.

As you can see, none of these ideas are perfect, the left is gonna whine and the Right is gonna *****. The moderate just wants the problem addressed and solved, knowing that no immigration policy or Law will last forever, even if its written down in black and white. At some point the policy will need to be modified again as future generations have new ideas or borders change or citizens become more tolerant of a law that sometimes can be unjust.


Your a smart guy, you can figure out the rest. Im tired of typing a lesson in politics on my phone.

All you've proven so far is that both the left and the right use illegal immigrants as pawns, nothing more.

I say we give legal status the ones who PAY their hospital bills, MAINTAIN insurance on the cars they drive and PAY TAXES for their kids who go to school. I also say give legal status to those who JOIN the military to defend this country, LEARN English and assimilate to this society, rather than making America into North Mexico. Seems to me you'd be proud of the culture that took you in when you had nothing and gave you opportunities to better yourself and your lot in life.

For those who expect to get every benefit this country has to offer, but refuse to contribute to it's continued prosperity, I have a different idea. We take those folks who are detained and process them. Not for release and not for deportation (yet), but we sub them out as laborers for those farms and constrution companies that would use undocumented day laborers and instead of paying the laborers, they pay the government. The laborers work for a specified time at which they've PAID for their own deportation. In the interim, we feed and house them in the same manner we feed and house our troops in the field. If GP tents and MRE's are good enough for our troops, they're good enough for them.

They'd also have the option to "bond out" by having someone in Mexico pay for their return. Or, if Mexico is so concerned about their welfare, THEY can pay the U.S. to return them immediately. Everything I've outlined is vastly superior to how Mexico treats illegal immigrant detainees, so I'm not sure how they could reasonable object.

The formula is still incomplete, so let's address those companies still using illegal immigrants so they can skip out on taxes. Every company in the U.S. (and even individuals) can use E-Verify to confirm employment eligibility for prospective employees. http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify Pay the states to cross-reference business licenses against E-Verify enrollment. If they're not enrolled, notify them to enroll. If after a grace period they do not enroll, schedule them for inspection. If it's discovered that they are employing illegal immigrants, fine the bloody hell out of them! If they're enrolled in E-Verify and can show that they DID check the worker and got approval, they are immune from fines for that person who ultimately proved to be an illegal immigrant.

When they're caught employing illegal immigrants, the individual owner/operator are placed on a list. Simply closing the company and opening a new one will not hit the restart button for them. Individual personal responsibility is the key to success.

I also have ideas on what to do with those American citizens who refuse to live up to their responsibilities as citizens. Sure, we help the poor and underpriviliged, but no more free handouts with no expectations from them. If you want something, you need to be willing to DO something in return! Even if it's just volunteer work in a shelter, soup kitchen, crisis hotline, picking up trash or whatever, you get to CONTRIBUTE for your helping hand up/out.

JMO, YMMV