05/15/2022 Another Mass Shooting. This time at a California Church

[DavidMcmillan]

For one, there is no such thing as "rapid" due process. Second, the only way you could ensure that the proposed bad guy doesn't lose his guns before the hearing is to arrest them, or remove the firearms from their possession, and we would be back to square one.

I get what you are saying, but there is no viable way to make a red flag law viable without infringing on the rights of the accused. Instead of arguing over this point, lets fight to remove state government laws that restrict people from carrying for self protection. When more people fight back, there will be less mass shooters. Is it any wonder that 99.99% of all mass shootings happen in heavily gun controlled environments?

Sure there is. We have rapid instances of child removal. Yes, some times it may not be done properly, but why not fix that instead of how we continue to whine about everything. The idea of more people fighting back would reduce the events just doesn't carry water. None of these folks are rational enough to understand that concept. We're not talking about the convenience store robber, or the irate neighbor, etc. We are dealing with folks that have lost contact with the real world. Houston is not a "gun controlled environment" and they just had another of these events today. Those folks in the grocery store had their rights greatly restricted. Improvement is possible.

 

[dennishoddy]

Sure there is. We have rapid instances of child removal. Yes, some times it may not be done properly, but why not fix that instead of how we continue to whine about everything. The idea of more people fighting back would reduce the events just doesn't carry water. None of these folks are rational enough to understand that concept. We're not talking about the convenience store robber, or the irate neighbor, etc. We are dealing with folks that have lost contact with the real world. Houston is not a "gun controlled environment" and they just had another of these events today. Those folks in the grocery store had their rights greatly restricted. Improvement is possible.

Don't get me started on rapid child removal with out concrete evidence, only a letter or phone call from a scorned spouse, lover, etc starts that action.
I have a relative that has been on the end of a social worker and armed LEO removing children from a home in the middle of the night because he refused the sexual advances of his wife's sister. The revenge was to call social services and register an unfounded complaint that took almost a year of court forced counseling by relative for "anger management" because he loudly voiced opposition to his two children being removed from his home.
Social worker expected him to not be angry and the court agreed?
Red flag laws as proposed work the same way.
No way, no how, and not on my vote.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

That's the rub. "as proposed", and there are certainly way too many problems with child cases. But why not work with GOA, OK2A, etc, to draft laws that would work? We hear in these threads quite often. "surrender is not an option", but that is exactly what we are doing when we do nothing. We have all these "candidates" claiming to be 2A supporters, well, show us, do something to stop these insane individuals from having firearms. Many of these folks have multiple instances of family members, co-workers, school councilors having raised concerns only to have law enforcement hands tied because that haven't shot anyone yet.

 

[Shadowrider]

So why can’t we help draft something like the red flag, with rapid honest due-process? It’s the same story with almost everyone of these events.

Because it's unconstitutional. It flies in the face of all jurisprudence since our founding. Innocent until proven guilty? No matter your feelings or good intended logic, red flag laws aren't going to do a damn thing except erode our 2A rights further. Whatever means you put in towards prompt due process will be ignored in the interest of "public safety" and lack of docket capacity. IOW, it won't be prompt and there will be nothing anyone can do about it so tough luck to the defendant who has a vindictive wife/GF/BF/other.

If these pukes were shot in the face IMMEDIATELY when they commence this nonsense it would stop happening. That's just a fact. If you want to give the commie leftists some (or all) of your rights, go right ahead, but I'll be keeping mine if I have a say.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

Well, tell that to the retired cop who was working security in the store. He attempted to shoot the guy, but the "puke" was wearing some form of body armor.

Being killed in a grocery store is also a bit unconstitutional. So what suggestions do you have to reduce the number of these "predictable" events?

We are losing now, so just sitting back and regurgitating the same old lines will accomplish nothing.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

We already have the system in place and we already have laws in place. We don't need more laws. We need to enforce what we have. What we need are DAs that are willing to prosecute criminals. What we need are politicians that don't want to punish the law abiding in order to "make us safer" by "just doing something". What we need are family members willing to step in and intervene when they think another member of the family has an issue.

I'm not willing to give up any more of my rights because of what evil people do. I don't think it's necessary and I don't think it's going to change evil. Evil will find a way to make someone miserable.

 

[OKCHunter]

Well, tell that to the retired cop who was working security in the store. He attempted to shoot the guy, but the "puke" was wearing some form of body armor.

Being killed in a grocery store is also a bit unconstitutional. So what suggestions do you have to reduce the number of these "predictable" events?

We are losing now, so just sitting back and regurgitating the same old lines will accomplish nothing.

Two to the chest and one to the face. And, multiple people carrying a weapon would help.

 

[Tanis143]

That's the rub. "as proposed", and there are certainly way too many problems with child cases. But why not work with GOA, OK2A, etc, to draft laws that would work? We hear in these threads quite often. "surrender is not an option", but that is exactly what we are doing when we do nothing. We have all these "candidates" claiming to be 2A supporters, well, show us, do something to stop these insane individuals from having firearms. Many of these folks have multiple instances of family members, co-workers, school councilors having raised concerns only to have law enforcement hands tied because that haven't shot anyone yet.

Well, tell that to the retired cop who was working security in the store. He attempted to shoot the guy, but the "puke" was wearing some form of body armor.

Being killed in a grocery store is also a bit unconstitutional. So what suggestions do you have to reduce the number of these "predictable" events?

We are losing now, so just sitting back and regurgitating the same old lines will accomplish nothing.

What you are failing to understand is that there is NO constitutional way to stop these people except for their intended victims to start fighting back. It really is that simple. Any foray into trying to pre-emptively stopping them runs smack into infringing rights. And taking a child out of a dangerous situation is completely different than red flag laws.

 

[Shadowrider]

Well, tell that to the retired cop who was working security in the store. He attempted to shoot the guy, but the "puke" was wearing some form of body armor.

Being killed in a grocery store is also a bit unconstitutional. So what suggestions do you have to reduce the number of these "predictable" events?

We are losing now, so just sitting back and regurgitating the same old lines will accomplish nothing.

And handing over our guns on a simple unconfirmed and unfounded complaint isn't going to fix anything either. These "folks that have lost contact with the real world" aren't going to either. So what are you going to push for when he guns down 3 or 4 cops that show up to get his guns?

 

[DavidMcmillan]

Repeating the same old lines seems to be okay for us, so we can add "The folks killed in the grocery store also had Constitutional Rights, but "too bad, should have had a gun like the security guard"