Anyone have experience with these? I've heard that seating depth is the key for accuracy. I was told to "paint" a bullet, re-size the case down enough to hold the bullet and chamber it. this will ensure the bullet is just touching the lands. Anyone tried this? BTW this is for my wby. I'm not an expert, but I do have 6-7 years reloading experience.
In my experence, the key to loading VLDs... especially bergers is to seat the bullet with light enough neck tension (approx .001" differance from sized fresh from the die od to seated bullet od) that the bullet is allowed to be seated gently into the rifling, and pressed back into the case as the bolt is cammed closed. I generally seat the bullet .015 to .020 long to allow the bullet to be pushed back... but ive seen some rifles want .100.....
Keep in mind that you will probably need a new bullet seater to keep from using the nose of the bullet as the bearing point of the seating die, and if you don't have a comparitor (the old stonypoint, aka hornady) you will need one to accurately measure the seating depths from the ogive.
I load 180gr 7mm VLDs in a 7mm wildcat driving said bullet at 3200fps. I also load 95gr 6mm bergers in 243AI.
This technique works well for both.
The process of manipulating neck tension seperate from sizing is not especially challenging... but it may require seperate tools than those you are currently using. The level of precision you need, and the ranges over which you intend to hurdle these needles will determine if the investment is worthwhile.
Keep in mind that you will probably need a new bullet seater to keep from using the nose of the bullet as the bearing point of the seating die, and if you don't have a comparitor (the old stonypoint, aka hornady) you will need one to accurately measure the seating depths from the ogive.
I load 180gr 7mm VLDs in a 7mm wildcat driving said bullet at 3200fps. I also load 95gr 6mm bergers in 243AI.
This technique works well for both.
The process of manipulating neck tension seperate from sizing is not especially challenging... but it may require seperate tools than those you are currently using. The level of precision you need, and the ranges over which you intend to hurdle these needles will determine if the investment is worthwhile.
ABINOK will this same tecnique work with sierra match kings & hornady's longer a max if you plan on long range .224 69 & 75 gr respectively. might be worth a try. I am getting pretty good groups with what I am doing now. thanks don't mean a hijack just sounded interesting
the hornady amax with secant ogives will work well... the 162gr 7mm bullet for example.
It will work for the smks... but the results are not as dramatic.
I have a 300Win mag laod that throws 220SMKs seated long over H1000 that use this method, and another laod using H4831 that is short enough to magazine load with the same bullet. Both have gone under 12" for 5 shots @1350yds... but the longer seating depth has lower extreme spreads... and better sd of course...
VLDs done perfect....awesome
VLDs done wrong..... bad bad bad
SMKs done right....pretty good
SMKs done wrong.... still pretty good.... YMMV
It will work for the smks... but the results are not as dramatic.
I have a 300Win mag laod that throws 220SMKs seated long over H1000 that use this method, and another laod using H4831 that is short enough to magazine load with the same bullet. Both have gone under 12" for 5 shots @1350yds... but the longer seating depth has lower extreme spreads... and better sd of course...
VLDs done perfect....awesome
VLDs done wrong..... bad bad bad
SMKs done right....pretty good
SMKs done wrong.... still pretty good.... YMMV
I have a differing opinion on the .015,.020 long theory. I have a .264 win mag and a 7mm rem mag that i shoot at 1760 yards and i like to have my berger vld's .010 way from the rifling. this will not erode the throat. will give you superb accuracy and will elongate case life by 2 reloads due to reduces pressure. (we all know how much new brass costs!) You should really play with your loads. Some people burn up a barrel just finding something that they like. so its really a matter of the gun.
The short answer is that you seat a bullet in an empty case, chamber it, and then measure what the length is... theoreatically getting what is known as the "bullet jam" length. In reality case neck tension will play a role in what that length actually is by how much contact you will have with the lands, and how much pressure is required to overcome the neck tension.
Jam will be longer on a case with .003" than it will be on one setup for .001 neck tension.
In your initial post your mentioned the suggestion to "paint" the bullet... this is the intended measurement, though most use a magic marker...
shoot me a pm... ive got a couple of books you will want to have a look at...
CoyoteKid, I would be interested to hear your theory that by seating bullets .010" shorter you are having any effect at all on throat erosion. While I agree that some guns will shoot well at .010" off, the majority will like more contact, especially when you get past a 7 or 8 caliber secant ogive. Its primarily an issue of bearing surface.
I assume you are shooting 180s?
Id love to hear more about your setup... Im glad to see more folks in OK shooting to a mile and beyond. Theres a couple of guys in the el reno area that do, as well as a few others scattered around. I can only shoot to 2170yds here at the house without having a spotter to verify the absence of cars on a county road in the area. My current load is supersonic to 2600ish... one of these days...
Jam will be longer on a case with .003" than it will be on one setup for .001 neck tension.
In your initial post your mentioned the suggestion to "paint" the bullet... this is the intended measurement, though most use a magic marker...
shoot me a pm... ive got a couple of books you will want to have a look at...
CoyoteKid, I would be interested to hear your theory that by seating bullets .010" shorter you are having any effect at all on throat erosion. While I agree that some guns will shoot well at .010" off, the majority will like more contact, especially when you get past a 7 or 8 caliber secant ogive. Its primarily an issue of bearing surface.
I assume you are shooting 180s?
Id love to hear more about your setup... Im glad to see more folks in OK shooting to a mile and beyond. Theres a couple of guys in the el reno area that do, as well as a few others scattered around. I can only shoot to 2170yds here at the house without having a spotter to verify the absence of cars on a county road in the area. My current load is supersonic to 2600ish... one of these days...
Case Lenght
I bought a Hornady case OAL (over all length) gauge at my local precision gun store. I then followed the instructions on the OAL gauge and then backed the OAL off by .010 inches. I also realize that many people think im from OK but im really from SD and think you have a very interesting Forum with more info pertaining to me than i have found on any others.
On the issue of throat erosion!
The use of stock ammo is mass produced to work in EVERY rifle of that caliber. This means that the cases are super short. When you fire this cartridge the bullet "Jumps" from the neck to the rifling causing the bullet to contact off center and erode the throat.
I shoot 140 grain and 168 grain VLD in .264 and 7mm respectively. If you use your OAL gauge and then back the case off .010 then the closest part of the bullet to the throat would be the part that you got your OAL measurement form and there for you would not have contact if you move back to a length of your desiring.
I bought a Hornady case OAL (over all length) gauge at my local precision gun store. I then followed the instructions on the OAL gauge and then backed the OAL off by .010 inches. I also realize that many people think im from OK but im really from SD and think you have a very interesting Forum with more info pertaining to me than i have found on any others.
On the issue of throat erosion!
The use of stock ammo is mass produced to work in EVERY rifle of that caliber. This means that the cases are super short. When you fire this cartridge the bullet "Jumps" from the neck to the rifling causing the bullet to contact off center and erode the throat.
I shoot 140 grain and 168 grain VLD in .264 and 7mm respectively. If you use your OAL gauge and then back the case off .010 then the closest part of the bullet to the throat would be the part that you got your OAL measurement form and there for you would not have contact if you move back to a length of your desiring.
You can hold a bullet against lands with a pencil eraser then drop a dowell rod in the muzzle,mark the crown then make a dummy round. chamber it and compare the depth with the dowell. Poor boy method.
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