Cruel?

[tRidiot]

So... no answer to the claim of "cruelty" not being attributable to actual physical pain, but to the personification of an animal and application of human-level traits, desires, characteristics and sentimentality to a pet?


Ok, just checking. Been a couple pages now. No biggie.

 

[BadgeBunny]

So... no answer to the claim of "cruelty" not being attributable to actual physical pain, but to the personification of an animal and application of human-level traits, desires, characteristics and sentimentality to a pet?


Ok, just checking. Been a couple pages now. No biggie.

It's cause I wasn't here ... Granted my thoughts are based on what I know about veterinary medicine from several years ago, so I'll concede that surgical techniques have probably changed or been improved on in those years, but there is the potential for the dog to regain his/her bark and if scar tissue can impede a dog's ability to breathe. And then there's the "usual" ... bleeding, infection, blah, blah, blah, you know how that goes, typical complications from surgery. Some dogs also will become so frustrated in their inability to bark that they will act out in other ways.

I know one vet who stopped debarking dogs after he debarked a dog that had never destroyed anything in his life. People just wanted him to not bark when friends came over and they said they had tried everything under the sun to get him to stop. Dog tolerated the surgery well and healed up nicely, but apparently started destroying everything in the house. I don't remember how long it took, but I do remember that they tried crating him way before crating was the in thing to do and came home to a dog that had killed himself trying to get out of the crate. Got his head hung up inbetween the door of the crate and the side somehow ... That was not the first dog he'd seen develop behavior problems after being debarked, but it was the most significant case of stress he'd seen that he couldn't attribute to anything other than the dog being debarked.

So ... it might not be the end of the world for most dogs, but I tend to see it in the same light as declawing cats. If people would spend more time learning how their dogs and cats communicate and think ... well ... You know ... It's not like I haven't said it here before ...

 

[surjimmy]

My Wife use to show Collies, she had one that would bark at air. We had her debarked, she could still bark only it was in a whisper and sounded horse. She still acted normal and as far as I know was never in any pain. Let me understand this, this procedure is considered Cruel and electroshock is ok?

 

[tRidiot]

My Wife use to show Collies, she had one that would bark at air. We had her debarked, she could still bark only it was in a whisper and sounded horse. She still acted normal and as far as I know was never in any pain. Let me understand this, this procedure is considered Cruel and electroshock is ok?

Lotta different perspectives.

I think it's a bit overblown, but bottom line, if the dog is untrainable, get rid of it. I'm not so emotionally attached to animals, I suppose.

 

[BadgeBunny]

My Wife use to show Collies, she had one that would bark at air. We had her debarked, she could still bark only it was in a whisper and sounded horse. She still acted normal and as far as I know was never in any pain. Let me understand this, this procedure is considered Cruel and electroshock is ok?

I dunno, man ... I don't like shock collars either.

My first GSD, Jackie, was trained in Germany with "old school" methods and she had some idiosyncrasies (sp??) left over from that training until the day she died, even though I never used negative reinforcement with her. They may not have tortured her in the strictest sense of the word, but they used pain and fear of pain to alter her behavior and certain movements, voice tones or touching her on certain parts of her body obviously caused her distress, even though she was never reprimanded or trained that way here with me.

I agree with Danny that dogs are not capable of human emotion or logic, but they are capable of being stressed.

 

[tRidiot]

I agree with Danny that dogs are not capable of human emotion or logic, but they are capable of being stressed.

THIS. Not advanced logic, anyways. Simple logic, i.e., action = consequence, sure. And when you keep this in mind, I think it makes things easier. They're not capable of complex thought processes.

Luckily we can discuss this rationally and calmly (some of us) without resorting to ad hominem attacks regarding mutilation of humans.

 

[BadgeBunny]

THIS. Not advanced logic, anyways. Simple logic, i.e., action = consequence, sure. And when you keep this in mind, I think it makes things easier. They're not capable of complex thought processes.

Luckily we can discuss this rationally and calmly (some of us) without resorting to ad hominem attacks regarding mutilation of humans.

 

[tRidiot]

Shut up, you're biased.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Shut up, you're biased.

So I've been told ...

 

[tRidiot]

So I've been told ...

Well, a little bias ain't always a BAD thang....