Guns In Cars

[Aries]

I love this debate. It always goes exactly the same way, for exactly the same reasons.

Because it's not just one debate. It's actually two separate debates. It's two sides, both making their arguments as if they are right and the other is wrong, and neither side realizing they are talking about different things (there is an intersection point, but the arguments are not mutually exclusive). And it goes on and on because NEITHER SIDE ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THE OTHER SIDE.

Side A: The thief is responsible, don't blame the victim
Side B: The victim should be smart, and not make themselves a bigger target

So... side A is actually correct. You SHOULD be able to leave your gun anywhere without someone stealing it, a woman SHOULD be able to wear whatever she wants or go wherever she wants without worrying about being raped, and you SHOULD be able to walk through a dark alley with $100 bills hanging out of your pockets and not be robbed. And IF someone takes your gun, rapes you, or robs you, They, and only they, are responsible for what they do.

But... in the real world, there ARE people who will take advantage of those situations, and WILL rob, rape or steal from you. So you can't do those things safely.

Side B is actually making a DIFFERENT point that is also true. BECAUSE there are people who will take advantage of those opportunities, it's just smart to take steps to reduce the odds of being a victim. This is also true.

Side A is arguing from the perspective of how things SHOULD be.
Side B is arguing from the perspective of how things actually are.

And this analysis will be ignored for the same reason the debate goes on and on. Because everyone wants to argue their side, without listening to any other perspective. Actually, I'm using hyperbole. There are a few who recognize both issues, but the heat comes from Side A and Side B believing they are exclusively right, and not actually hearing what the other side is saying.

It's fascinating, because as many times as I've seen it on message boards, it always goes exactly the same way. It's basically four pages so far of people talking and not listening. Carry on, it's entertaining!

 

[sherrick13]

I love this debate. It always goes exactly the same way, for exactly the same reasons.

Because it's not just one debate. It's actually two separate debates. It's two sides, both making their arguments as if they are right and the other is wrong, and neither side realizing they are talking about different things (there is an intersection point, but the arguments are not mutually exclusive). And it goes on and on because NEITHER SIDE ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THE OTHER SIDE.

Side A: The thief is responsible, don't blame the victim
Side B: The victim should be smart, and not make themselves a bigger target

So... side A is actually correct. You SHOULD be able to leave your gun anywhere without someone stealing it, a woman SHOULD be able to wear whatever she wants or go wherever she wants without worrying about being raped, and you SHOULD be able to walk through a dark alley with $100 bills hanging out of your pockets and not be robbed. And IF someone takes your gun, rapes you, or robs you, They, and only they, are responsible for what they do.

But... in the real world, there ARE people who will take advantage of those situations, and WILL rob, rape or steal from you. So you can't do those things safely.

Side B is actually making a DIFFERENT point that is also true. BECAUSE there are people who will take advantage of those opportunities, it's just smart to take steps to reduce the odds of being a victim. This is also true.

Side A is arguing from the perspective of how things SHOULD be.
Side B is arguing from the perspective of how things actually are.

And this analysis will be ignored for the same reason the debate goes on and on. Because everyone wants to argue their side, without listening to any other perspective. Actually, I'm using hyperbole. There are a few who recognize both issues, but the heat comes from Side A and Side B believing they are exclusively right, and not actually hearing what the other side is saying.

It's fascinating, because as many times as I've seen it on message boards, it always goes exactly the same way. It's basically four pages so far of people talking and not listening. Carry on, it's entertaining!

I agree with you. Leaving your AR-15 in plain sight in an unlocked car with the windows down at 10th and Lottie is stupid and should be called out as such.

However, leaving your pistol (or rifle) in a LOCKED car not in plain sight is not wrong, bad or immoral and should NOT be shamed in any way. If a criminal breaks into your LOCKED car with nothing in sight and steals your firearm IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT in any way. No difference than if he broke into your house and stole your gun from your nightstand.


As such. A woman wearing a short skirt walking down 10th and Lottie at 2am drunk is stupid and should be called out as such. However, a woman wearing a short skirt going to a bar in Midtown should not be considered responsible for her rape in any way, if that should happen.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I love this debate. It always goes exactly the same way, for exactly the same reasons.

Because it's not just one debate. It's actually two separate debates. It's two sides, both making their arguments as if they are right and the other is wrong, and neither side realizing they are talking about different things (there is an intersection point, but the arguments are not mutually exclusive). And it goes on and on because NEITHER SIDE ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THE OTHER SIDE.

Side A: The thief is responsible, don't blame the victim
Side B: The victim should be smart, and not make themselves a bigger target

So... side A is actually correct. You SHOULD be able to leave your gun anywhere without someone stealing it, a woman SHOULD be able to wear whatever she wants or go wherever she wants without worrying about being raped, and you SHOULD be able to walk through a dark alley with $100 bills hanging out of your pockets and not be robbed. And IF someone takes your gun, rapes you, or robs you, They, and only they, are responsible for what they do.

But... in the real world, there ARE people who will take advantage of those situations, and WILL rob, rape or steal from you. So you can't do those things safely.

Side B is actually making a DIFFERENT point that is also true. BECAUSE there are people who will take advantage of those opportunities, it's just smart to take steps to reduce the odds of being a victim. This is also true.

Side A is arguing from the perspective of how things SHOULD be.
Side B is arguing from the perspective of how things actually are.

And this analysis will be ignored for the same reason the debate goes on and on. Because everyone wants to argue their side, without listening to any other perspective. Actually, I'm using hyperbole. There are a few who recognize both issues, but the heat comes from Side A and Side B believing they are exclusively right, and not actually hearing what the other side is saying.

It's fascinating, because as many times as I've seen it on message boards, it always goes exactly the same way. It's basically four pages so far of people talking and not listening. Carry on, it's entertaining!

The biggest issue I have is with the repeated "were your car doors locked?" and "lock your car doors" posts over and over again. I think the person who posted it to begin with knows "Gee, I should've locked my car door," or maybe "My 1992 Dodge Minivan isn't the the best place to keep my Patek Phillipe Stainless Steel Nautilis." I am very glad they posted, it serves as a reminder to me to lock my doors, make sure valuables are out of site or take other actions to avoid a theft. You can do everything right and your car can still get broken into, even if nothing is in it.

So, I will always stick up for the victim.

 

[RickN]

You all can keep saying you are blameless, but I bet one of the liberals next anti-gun moves will be to make so that victims of shooting by a gun stolen from a car can sue whoever left it in the car. A locked box may help with that but I would not bet on it. When you enter your house your gun should too. Sadly it is no longer like when we were young and could leave our firearms in a rifle rack in an unlocked pickup and the loony left is looking for any excuse to get rid of guns..

 

[sherrick13]

You all can keep saying you are blameless, but I bet one of the liberals next anti-gun moves will be to make so that victims of shooting by a gun stolen from a car can sue whoever left it in the car. A locked box may help with that but I would not bet on it. When you enter your house your gun should too. Sadly it is no longer like when we were young and could leave our firearms in a rifle rack in an unlocked pickup and the loony left is looking for any excuse to get rid of guns..

Giving into liberals isn't the way you defeat them.

 

[BobbyV]

I would bet that most are not because they had to leave a gun due to a "no-gun" facility. I have a lock box in the vehicle for such an issue, super easy to use, very secure, and inexpensive.

Most of what I see is on local area forums like nextdoor indicating the gun was stolen out of their vehicle overnight while it was in the driveway. I will without hesitation blame these folks, it's just ignorant.

Next would be guns stolen from homes during a burglary, can't blame folks for those, but it is easy to make them harder to find.

If a gun or any other item is left out of sight in a locked vehicle how is it the vehicle owner's fault but not during a home burglary?

Makes no sense.

 

[Chuckie]

I keep a subcompact Glock in a holster in the lower console of my truck. I wear a full size Glock concealed but also don't care if I print or if the barrel peaks out the bottom of a t-shirt if I lean forward. The truck gun is for a rare occasion I have arrived at a location I care about concealment.

To prevent it from being stolen, I lock my doors and avoid areas with a large representation of poor people.

" . . . a large representation of poor people. "

Nicely said

 

[RickN]

Giving into liberals isn't the way you defeat them.

Taking you gun into the house with you is not giving in to liberals. As Uncle Ben famously said "With great power comes great responsibility." Or as an old Ranger I knew growing up told me "You have a gun, you are responsible for it at all times."

It is the same as keeping guns out of the hands of young children without adult supervision.

 

[Janeer]

Open or closed the car does not matter, there is only one thing that the thief entered someone else's personal property and should be held criminally liable. Why they complicated all?
tracking employee productivity site

 

[DavidMcmillan]

You all can keep saying you are blameless, but I bet one of the liberals next anti-gun moves will be to make so that victims of shooting by a gun stolen from a car can sue whoever left it in the car. A locked box may help with that but I would not bet on it. When you enter your house your gun should too. Sadly it is no longer like when we were young and could leave our firearms in a rifle rack in an unlocked pickup and the loony left is looking for any excuse to get rid of guns..

Rick is correct, there are already requirements for “proper” storage in your home, and parents are being held responsible when a child runs off with a gun. Charging a vehicle owner is not a large step.

Being a responsible individual is not giving in to liberals.