Looking for CCW Training in Grove OK Area

[Zephyr]

To reinforce what Buzzgun said above, if you want to teach gun heavy courses and "not give them a certificate unless they meet your standards" don't bother getting an OK SDA Instructor license.
The CLEET lesson plan is mandatory and passing criteria are set in law. I follow the CLEET lesson plan to the letter. The shooting part of the SDA is simply a safety check: targets are not scored.
Most of the course is laws and a mandatory safety part that has a written test. IMHO, anyone who expects to rewrite the OK SDA course without CLEET approval needs to rethink their plan.

Suggest you give what ever NRA Pistol or Personal Protection Courses you are qualified for if you like teaching shooting courses.

Slow down Rod, I have no intention of rewriting the Oklahoma Class. If I taught it I would do it by the book. I think it would be helpful if the certification for CCW had a component of proficiency. Would you certify a person who clearly does not know how to handle a firearm? Not sure I could with a clear conscience, but I am sure it happens all the time if the politicians are deciding the criteria for holding a CCW. Holding a permit is a right, but does have responsibility associated with carrying a firearm.

But my intention was to get information, so thanks for the info.

Zephyr...

 

[Rod Snell]

Would you certify a person who clearly does not know how to handle a firearm?

What I am saying, with the CLEET lesson plan open in front of me, is that the instructor only cetifies that the student performed the actions specifically listed in the checklist portion of the CLEET lesson plan, and does not get to express an official opinion of any requirement beyond that. Unoficially, I give them a certificate for a discount on a basic pistol course and encourage them to take that and the NRA Protection Courses. I CANNOT REQUIRE IT.

If they can fire the required shots within the specified time limit without endangering themselves or others, they pass the shooting part, even if they completely miss the target, because the instructor cannot score the targets as part of a pass/fail criterion. Shooting proficiency is NOT part of SDA training, beyond basic safety.

Of the states I've done classes for, I much prefer Utah, which did away with the shooting part and does not pretend that their course is any kind of firearms training, just laws. Then it is clear that if they need a shooting course, it is separate.
The worst part of the OK course is that people actually go away from the course saying they had "firearm training." The second worse thing is that they sit there obsessing about the shooting part and don't pay attention during the laws part, which is what they really need to get out of it, as they will never hear it again and probably never read the actual SDA.
The complete SDA is on the OSBI website.

 

[Zephyr]

What I am saying, with the CLEET lesson plan open in front of me, is that the instructor only cetifies that the student performed the actions specifically listed in the checklist portion of the CLEET lesson plan, and does not get to express an official opinion of any requirement beyond that. Unoficially, I give them a certificate for a discount on a basic pistol course and encourage them to take that and the NRA Protection Courses. I CANNOT REQUIRE IT.

If they can fire the required shots within the specified time limit without endangering themselves or others, they pass the shooting part, even if they completely miss the target, because the instructor cannot score the targets as part of a pass/fail criterion. Shooting proficiency is NOT part of SDA training, beyond basic safety.

Of the states I've done classes for, I much prefer Utah, which did away with the shooting part and does not pretend that their course is any kind of firearms training, just laws. Then it is clear that if they need a shooting course, it is separate.
The worst part of the OK course is that people actually go away from the course saying they had "firearm training." The second worse thing is that they sit there obsessing about the shooting part and don't pay attention during the laws part, which is what they really need to get out of it, as they will never hear it again and probably never read the actual SDA.
The complete SDA is on the OSBI website.

I understand your points. When I failed a student, I allowed them to retake the class as many times as necessary free of charge. Understand, I am not talking about shooting accuracy when I speak of proficiency. I am talking about handling the gun from a holster in a safe manner, getting the feel of shooting while moving and doing these things under some moderate level of pressure. Target recognition drills are an important teaching tool especially in impressing on a student how hard it is to make split decisions that have consequences. I have had students who decided concealed carry was not for them after attempting to do some of the basic things that would be required in a self defense situation, and I considered that a positive outcome.

I just think that a required class is an opportunity to bring some reality to the student who may never have the opportunity again, in addition to teaching the law and basic safety. I worry about the individual who straps on a handgun with little appreciation of what skills are required to be safe and effective in a self defense situation to the degree either are possible. But I have no issue with your point of view and appreciate your interaction with me on the matter.

I am surprised to hear that Utah has done away with the shooting portion of the class. When I certified for Utah CCW training a few years ago, they provided a very general outline for course content and required that the instructor provided a detailed class outline which was reviewed and approved by Utah staff before you received teacher certification. The general requirements required shooting. I didn't renew my certification so have not kept up. I did think that Utah had a very good certification process, so I am sure any change was well thought out.

Regards,

Ron...

 

[Buzzgun]

Ron

What we are nicely trying to tell you is, what you think does not matter because instructors are not permitted to add or subtract from the very specific course outline.

The SDA class isn't about gun handling from a holster, shooting under pressure, shooting while moving, etc, etc, etc. Rod is not giving you his "point of view", he is telling you what the law requires.

SDA classes are always subject to in person audits by CLEET officials and instructors are required to give advance notice of class date, time and location so that CLEET can conduct an unannounced, on site audit if they so choose.

If you want to teach gun handling and tactics, great, but find another venue for it because SDA training classes are not designed for that type of instruction.

 

[Zephyr]

Buzz gun,

I got it!

What I am nicely trying to tell you is that (1) if I decide to certify and teach the class I will do it by the book,
and (2) IMHO, this approach misses a chance to improve some number of shooters capabilities. Simple as that. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Just have an opinion.

Enough said, I would say.

Ron...